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Broten 'Disappointed' with Teachers at Vaughan School

Posted By: Katie Franzios · 9/13/2012 1:17:00 PM

The Education Minister is repeating her plea to teachers to leave students out of their battle with the government after news that there won't be many extracurricular activities at Stephen Lewis Secondary School in Vaughan.

Notices went up this morning telling students, sports like volleyball, cricket, golf and junior girls basketball will be cancelled this year.

Laurel Broten says she is disappointed.

She says she will look at the Putting Students First Act to see what action the province will take with this issue.

Broten says the province will be keeping an eye on what is happening across the province.

The Ontario Secondary School Teachers' Federation had one day of action against the province in regards to bowing out of voluntary activities like extracrriculars. The Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario says it will be up to their members if they want to volunteer or not.

 

Related Content:

Vaughan School Extracurriculars Get The Axe

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  1. MichaelB_2952 posted on 09/13/2012 02:08 PM
    By not participating in extra-curricular activities, the message that the teachers at this secondary school is giving today is for their union to play hardball with the province. I can see teachers at other schools doing the same.

    If McGuinty and Broten think that the schools will run normally this year, they are mistaken. Non-participation in extra-curricular activities is only the first step of action by the teachers.
  2. proton posted on 09/13/2012 02:36 PM
    the truly great teachers wouldn't deprive the kids. the lousy ones don't give a damn about the kids.

    This should be a good litmus test, except for those good teachers forced through coercion, to refuse to volunteer

    Remember, the best rise above this. They're the teachers that are worth their weight in gold
    1. MichaelB_2952 posted on 09/13/2012 03:04 PM
      @proton Proton, become a teacher. Good teachers are fighters.
    2. jackson posted on 09/15/2012 05:09 PM
      @proton the truly great teachers are pissed off that they have lost their democratic rights. you "might" be able to legislate away my democratic rights away but you CANNOT legislate what I do on my OFF TIME. Teachers call extra curricular actives because they are extra (on top of) the curriculum and are not mandatory - this is also why they are done outside of the school day and not even child is required to participate. It scares me to think there are followers in the world that are so blind to what is going on here that they actually encourage the remove of anyone's democratic rights.
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  3. G. T posted on 09/13/2012 03:00 PM
    Brotan is disappointed? Gee, how about the teachers? They work an average of 60 hours a week, as well as volunteering their time at the school is what the average teacher does _every_ week of the School year. All they wanted was a little justice and instead they got bullied and forced back to work. Let's not forget, the unions offered to take a wage freeze for smaller classes and more prep time. McGuinty and Brotan said no. So, the students lose because the class sizes have bloated, again, the teachers have less prep time and now, they don't feel the desire to VOLUNTEER their time, since the Government and the Education Minister has told them their opinion doesn't count. Go figger. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not a teacher and not associated with the union.
    1. calvinhc posted on 09/15/2012 09:06 AM
      @G. T Teachers work an AVERAGE of 60 hours a week?!?

      Get real! That would only be true if they require one minute of prep time for every minute of class time and that is clearly not the case. Sure, there are some teachers who likely put in 60 hours per week on a regular basis, but they are the exceptions, not the average.

      Let us also not forget that these weeks we are speaking of are only 40-41 of the 52 weeks of the year, not the 48-49 weeks that that most of society works.
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  4. Rob posted on 09/13/2012 03:48 PM
    Broten is completely mistaken if she thinks the Act can force teachers to do extra curricular activities when said activities are VOLUNTARY. It comes out of the teachers personal time. For someone who makes $166,000+ a year talks a big game but needs to remove her head from her arse.
    1. Ken posted on 09/16/2012 12:01 PM
      @Rob Brotten could volunteer to coach at a neighboring school if she is so disappointed.
  5. Tony Guy posted on 09/13/2012 04:21 PM
    Broten is dissapointed, why? I am angry. These teachers are shooting themselves in the foot. They are using the students as ammunition. If these extra curriculum activities are essential to student success they should be included in the teachers contract.not "volunteering". Teachers are paid very well, its time they put in the hours.
    1. mg posted on 09/14/2012 12:12 AM
      @Tony Guy Hey Tony...did you show up for work an hour early today, stay 3+ hours after your shift and then bring work home with you to finish at the dinner table (without pay or recognition)? Doubtful. Still angry? You should be thanking teachers for the time and energy they volunteer for their students. I highly doubt your career requires you to do the same. You're angry? I'm angry! This uninformed perception the general population has about teachers is downright disgusting. Teaching is by no means a "cushy" profession nor should it be regarded as one.
    2. A.S. posted on 09/15/2012 04:04 PM
      @Tony Guy Tony, would you like to volunteer in my classroom this year? I have hours and hours of work for you to do that I certainly don't get paid to do. You might as well volunteer your time to do it. Oh... and yes, while SOME teachers get paid well - they are also the exception and not the norm. As a new teacher (who does not receive benefits!) I sacrifice my OWN money, and free time to ensure my students flourish at school.
      Are you willing to write me a cheque for those hours and resources?
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  6. MichaelP posted on 09/14/2012 09:22 AM
    teachers, for the most part, work their behinds off and deserve the respect of the general publlc.

    This decision by these specific teachers is a huge mistake. You can't run ads saying you're "fighting for your students" and then pull this crap. Take the high road. You'll get much more support from the public (and your students) that way.
    1. MrsR posted on 09/15/2012 08:26 PM
      @MichaelP Some teacher are making the individual choice whether or not to offer extra-curriculars. As it SHOULD be. Before you criticize us for our individual choice to VOLUNTEER our time, think about the following:

      - Did you volunteer your time this year?
      - Did you volunteer your time for an activity that your child was not a part of?
      - Did you thank your child's teacher from volunteering their time away from their family?

      If you can't answer "yes" to all of the above, then you clearly don't understand why teachers are so upset. We do EXTRA-CURRICULARS (called so because they are EXTRA to the curriculum we are responsible for) because we love doing it and we love providing them for our students. At some point, the general public needs to understand that this is and always has been extra, not an expectation.
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  7. proton posted on 09/14/2012 10:19 AM
    @mg it is commonplace for people in private sector that aren't paid by the hour to work overtime. that includes getting in early, leaving late, even weekend work when needed. There's no overtime pay for that. It's a commitment to work performance and, if that person doesn't feel well-enough compensated, they have the inalienable right to find another job.

    This must sound like a foreign language to the public sector, but welcome to the majority of the working public.

    The bubble the public sector has been living in needs to be burst and is long overdue.

    The loudest teacher voices are the ones you wouldn't want teaching your kids. They're a bad influence and poor role models.
    1. Jackson posted on 09/15/2012 05:20 PM
      @proton You are absolutely right Proton. It is common place for people working in the private sector to work overtime and not be paid for it. Many friends of mine complain about long nights at the office when quarterly reports are due, or a major project is being worked on... when that time is finished, they then talk about the vacation time or incentive that was given to them for appreciation (it might be as simple as a team outing, etc.) Teachers are not complaining about how much they are being paid or even about raises. OSSTF has gone on record saying they are happy to take the a freeze, ETFO has gone on record as saying this has nothing to do with money, it has to do with our collectively bargained rights (the rights that make sweatshops and child labour illegal) and how they are being ripped away from us through legislation. Unfortunately, the work description for a teacher is very clear. Teachers are responsible for the safety of their students during scheduled times and to deliver the curriculum. Labour often protests by not doing anything extra for their employer to send a message that they are not happy with current conditions. Anything beyond that is extra. So why do teachers do extra? Because they know it enriches the lives of every participant and the community.
    2. JoNi3 posted on 09/16/2012 08:47 AM
      @proton " it is commonplace for people in private sector that aren't paid by the hour to work overtime. that includes getting in early, leaving late, even weekend work when needed. "

      Yes, and it is common for teachers to do this as well. I frequently come in early, leave late, and mark, phone parents, and lesson prep on evenings and weekends. These are the things I need to do to effectively do my job.

      That does not mean that I need to continue to give up my lunch break 4 times per week to run the chess club, and spend 3 days after school each week running sports to be effective at teaching your children.
  8. N.D. posted on 09/15/2012 04:18 PM
    In our anti-bullying message to students we teach that to stop a bully you have to take away his/her power over his/her victims. And one way to do that is to empower the by-standers to get invoved and stand up to the bully. That is what we are doing. We, the by-standers to the bullying actions of the government, are standing up. We are choosing, as we are also entitiled to do, whether we participate in activities that are voluntary.
    1. n.d. posted on 09/15/2012 04:19 PM
      @N.D. *involved
    2. Richard Collins posted on 09/16/2012 07:45 AM
      @N.D. On the contrary. The elected members of government spoke up on behalf of their constituents and passed legislation to protect ordinary people against the bully that is the teacher's union. And in response, you've found someone new to attack: instead of the taxpayers, you're attacking our children. Every last one of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
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  9. voyageur1 posted on 09/15/2012 06:28 PM
    The only, truly discouraging fact in all of this government manipulation is the way time and time again, bitter and uninformed members of the public repeatedly fall for the lies and misinformation. It is ludicrous for any non-teacher to believe for one second they know anything at all about the teaching profession. I'd love to see the day when there is this much rancor and malicious discourse in a public forum over any other profession or form of employment.
  10. Member of the Front Lines posted on 09/15/2012 06:39 PM
    @calvinhc @calvinhc...
    60 hours, I would guess, is indeed an inaccurate view.

    You are of course quite right. I don't need to have 1 minute to plan for every one minute of classroom activity.

    However, after planning the activity (let's say it takes me 20 minutes to plan for 60 minutes of instructional time), I have to assemble the materials that I will need to make the activity engaging. Often this will mean driving around to purchase materials (yes, out of my own pocket), or spending time in the evening gathering things I may already have, or photocopying resources. Then, I have to plan accommodations for those who won't be able to demonstrate their learning as is due to ESL concerns. Following this, I will have to MODIFY the activity for those who have learning disabilities. Often, I have to modify it in more than one way (this year, maybe, say, 3 different types of modifications for the varying needs in my classroom) Then, I will administer the activity (Those would be the 60 minutes of school time). Following this, I will have to assess the activity. I will need to provide detailed and descriptive feedback on the activity for each of the students in my class. Later, I will have to evaluate the activity, and following that I will report on the activity. And then, lots of times, I may have to meet about the activity to teacher moderate the activity and to reflect on the activity.

    Be assured, it really does add up to quite a lot for 60 minutes of activity. 60 additional minutes is undoubtedly inaccurate - on average I would estimate that 90 minutes is more reasonable.

    I can never get over the fact that so many in the general public seem to think that they are experts on teachers because they've been in a classroom.
    I've been in office buildings...that doesn't mean I have any idea how hard the people in them work.
    I've had tours of factories. Same thing. I would never presume that because I see people in casual clothing chatting over a machine that they don't work hard.
    I WOULD NEVER ASSUME THAT I KNOW HOW MUCH OR HOW LITTLE EFFORT GOES INTO A JOB THAT I HAVE NEVER DONE BEFORE.
    However, regardless of your choice of career, I'm reasonably confident that if someone came along and tried to strip away a number of your basic rights, cut your pay, cut your benefits, screw with the pension that you've been paying into, and informed you that in a couple of years they will do even more than that 'with a view to future sustainability' YOU WOULD NOT SIT DOWN AND TAKE IT. I am trying to imagine a profession, anywhere, who would collectively just say 'oh, bummer, well I guess we should just suck it up'...and frankly I can't think of a one.
    Enjoy your weekend. I'm off to write some descriptive feedback. I anticipate it will take me a good portion of the evening.
    1. MichaelP posted on 09/15/2012 09:39 PM
      @Member of the Front Lines Why is it that both the Catholic and French unions were able to sit down with the province and get a deal done and the public union couldn't? The same thing happened last time around too. At some point you need to point the finger at the people negotiating for you. They aren't helping at all.
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  11. Ken posted on 09/15/2012 07:30 PM
    If Brotton wants to take a look at how the bill could force extracurriculars such as sports and clubs, teachers may need to turn to Health and Safety. Coaching without proper training can be quite dangerous and could be refused by workers.

    Most teachers are not trained to coach and do these volunteer activities out of kindness. With a pay freeze, some teachers will require their time after school to take a second job to keep with COLA. Everyone needs to provide for their families.
    1. MichaelP posted on 09/15/2012 09:33 PM
      @Ken knock it off already. teachers are well paid before and after this pay freeze. None of them will be doing shift work at Timmy's unless they're horrible with their money.
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  12. Peter posted on 09/15/2012 08:55 PM
    Most teachers don't normally complain about the extra work they do on their own time. In fact, many teachers find the coaching, etc. to be the highlight of their year. This work is not easily given up. It is hard, however, not to complain when people are writing such hateful comments about all teachers.

    What are we left with other than stopping the after hours work? There is no other way for us to protest. We didn't even get the chance to bargain in good faith. That is all we wanted.

    People say that teachers won't gain any public support by stopping the extra curricular activities. Where was the support from the pubic when the government was stripping away our bargaining rights? Before the bill was passed, the forums were filled with people calling us lazy, under worked glorified baby sitters. Why would we want to continue to give the extra time when that is the attitude we hear constantly? I give up time with my own family to spend time with your kids. Doesn't that mean anything to parents?

    The government KNEW this would be the result of passing the bill...yet pass it they did. I am not a fan of tossing the extra curricular activities, but I feel that I have no other choice.
    1. MichaelP posted on 09/15/2012 09:36 PM
      @Peter most people don't post on message boards peter. What you get are a few union hating idiots who love to complain about everything. Ignore those idiots.

      Most people respect teachers. Most people think you look terrible pulling out of extras. If you really loved it then you'd still do it. It's not like this is a negotiating tactic. The deal is done.
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  13. loveyershoes posted on 09/16/2012 07:57 AM
    Do some of the haters here recognize the illogic of their teacher-bashin? Teachers - whining, overpaid, no idea of the real world, lazy, 3 months off, greedy, selfish, work 4 hours a day, unrealistic benefits, gold-plated retirement, out-of-touch, hurting the kids, union lemmings, unwilling to face reality - Now that that's all been said about you teachers by the government, and posters here - after all that hate - how dare you not volunteer!
  14. ac posted on 09/16/2012 08:42 AM
    I have a question:
    When was the last time a coach of a community based soccer or hockey team was publicly tarred and feathered because one year they decided, for personal reasons, not to coach that year?
    1. stop bullying posted on 09/16/2012 11:19 PM
      @ac Personal Reason...don't want to be bullied by the folks suppodsidly fighting bullying--phone the kids help phone, or play pink floyd's the wall...
  15. Sarah J posted on 09/16/2012 10:29 PM
    I have been teaching for 4 years.  I make approx $40000 in a year.

    If I worked 40 hours a week over 41 weeks, I would be paid approximately $975 a week (that's about $24 an hour) and would work 1640 hours a year.

    In the 2011/12 year I put in:
    100 hours on reportcards (about 1 hour per reportcard per child 3 times a year)
    70 hours with the ME to WE team
    70 hours to the volleyball and basket ball teams
    60 hours to the running club
    300 hours for the breakfast program
    300 hours for the lunch program (children whose families cannot afford to provide more than one meal a day)

    Out of my own pocket I paid about:
    $600 for kids clothes for families who couldn't afford (winter jackets, mittens, boots, indoor shoes sweaters in the winter)
    $600 for food (groceries for families who could not afford it)
    $5000 for classroom resources (books, programs, teaching resources, art supplies, science supplies, support material for the students with autism, learning disabilities and mental health issues)
    $1900 for workshops
    those workshops took 4 school days that I had to take without pay ($780 total loss of income)
    $1470 for Additional Qualification courses (this is after 9 years of university and 3 university degrees)
    I also paid for storage of belongings for a family who was evicted and had to move to a shelter
    I paid for 4 children to attend day camps this summer

    So in reality I worked 2570 hours that school year (this does not include normal overtime - hours of preparation, planning and marking on my weekends, holidays and evenings)

    In reality I made $30 019 (before taxes, after money spent on my students)
    This all works out to ultimately me taking home $9 an hour. Before taxes.

    Would YOU be willing to do a teachers job of raising YOUR child for you for $9 an hour?
    1. ross11 posted on 09/17/2012 07:15 AM
      @Sarah J As a teacher with 20 years experience, I would say to you, stop spending that much money on your classroom. Beg, borrow, go to yard sales, but invest your hard earned money into your own future. Start saying "no" to anything more...you are already doing WAY more than most teachers. This is why some teachers get lazy and don't do any extracurriculars - they know people like you will do it for them. I know you love your kids and you don't want to see them hurting, I get that, I feel it too. But there comes a time when the community and the government needs to pick up some of the slack. As colleagues we need to do a way better job at sharing our resources. I've taught mainly high school, but I also taught grade 4 for two years, and I would have to say that most elementary teachers hoard their stuff like it was gold. More tenured teachers should be sharing everything they've amassed with younger teachers.
      You aren't going to get any respect from the teacher haters on here with your post....we will never convince them because they are shallow and stubborn thinkers. You'll get your best leverage with your colleagues and employers by simply doing less extra stuff and putting your hard earned money into your pocket.
      Just my two cents.
    2. kert posted on 09/17/2012 01:32 PM
      @Sarah J So quit and find something that pays better. Looks to me like working at Tim's at minimum wage would be more lucrative for you. So DO IT. Hundreds of teacher-qualified people are waiting for jobs in the education field. If the so-called "$9 per hour isn't enough for you, then you deserve better. McDonalds pays a minimum of $10.50 an hour. Look into it. But leave my kids out of your greedy ways thank you very much.
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  16. proton posted on 09/17/2012 09:59 AM
    @Sarah J seems as though you're the type of teacher that really cares about her students and they're lucky to have you. You may be one of the many that kids will remember later in life. You're likely underpaid.

    You're not the problem, the lousy uncaring teachers are the ones. They don't belong in the profession and they're overpaid.

    Unfortunately the union way doesn't recognize your efforts. A lousy teacher with 20 years experience that shouldn't be teaching will be paid more than a fantastic teacher with 5 years experience.

    Let's change the system and reward the deserving ones and stop rewarding the ones at the bottom of the rung
  17. Kaydee posted on 09/17/2012 12:28 PM
    Some teachers fear that Bill 115 signals the beginning of the end for public education. Holding back on extra-curricular programs and related activities is difficult for many teachers, yet perhaps the only leverage that they possess in this fight to preserve the collective voice and value of teachers.
    1. Reek posted on 09/17/2012 01:22 PM
      @Kaydee Pleeaassee...my kid's school runs from 8:30 to 2:30 - 6 hours. In those 6 hours each teacher has a spare class to "prepare" and "mark". then there are the 2 weeks off at Christmas. March break. Summer. And the PD days that less than 1/2 of them attend.Works out to 1200 hours. The rest of us work 2000 hours a year. Stop complaining about the $95000 you make for half of what everyone else does. If you don't like the conditions, QUIT! there are thousands of qualified teachers who would take your place in a second. Put the kids first, get to work, and stop complaining about your $80/hour job. Jeeeeez.
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  18. just doing my job posted on 09/17/2012 06:57 PM
    I'm a teacher. I"ll do my job, and I'll do it well (as I always do). I'll prepare engaging lessons, I'll teach my students, I'll care for your child ('physically, emotionally, socially, academically) like I always do. I'll help them reach goals, I'll cover the curriculum, I'll evaluate them, and I'll report to parents. Yes, I'll DO MY ACTUAL JOB. We are not actually "working to rule" (this is a misnomer); we are doing our jobs. We are not jeapordizing any child's education whatsoever by not doing extra-curricular activities. Maybe it's about time this "expectation" stopped anyway.... why are teachers responsible for these? Nowadays we take on the role of parent, social worker, nurse and coach. I'd love more time to devote to preparing excellent lessons and to providing feedback for children. What do people want? Education provided or sports and clubs? EXTRA curriculars are EXTRA. By postponing these, your children will not be "hurt", as the non-supporters claim. We are not hurting your children. We are teaching them that Canadians have democratic rights. We would love to bargain for better conditions for your children, but we have not been given the chance. Given the lack of respect by the government (and some of the public), I will no longer volunteer my time and I"ll no longer pay for school supplies and resources for my classroom out of my own pocket. Enough is enough. The above negative comments from people just show that they are totally ignorant about the whole situation. The government has mislead the public and created a crisis in education. Teachers did not do this. What do people expect us to do to fight back? I will not apologize for my wage or my sick days. I should not have to defend myself. We haven't created this fight. There wouldn't have been a fight if the government had let us actually bargain with our employer (the Boards), as per our right. Just wait.... others are next. Then see what you say. Thank you to all those supporters out there.
  19. proton posted on 09/18/2012 09:19 AM
    congrats to the union and those teachers following their lead. You've just demonstrated the union has lied and you've bolstered the gov't position.

    I rest my case!
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