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Teacher dispute could affect students for a couple of years

Posted By: Justine Lewkowicz · 9/17/2012 5:37:00 PM

The Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario says extracurricular activities could be affected for the duration of the contract imposed on teachers by Bill 115, which is two years.

"This is not going to end tomorrow," says ETFO president Sam Hammond. "It's not business as usual."

In the meantime, he says individual teachers are being told to consider backing out of volunteering their time with extracurricular activities.

"And we're prepared to defend them and stand behind them in terms of those individual decisions," Hammond says.

Ken Coran with the Ontario Secondary School Teachers' Federation says their teachers are being given a similar option.

"How frustrated are [teachers]? How angry are they? What would they like to do about it?" Coran says of the questions each teacher is being asked to answer themselves. "Members make their own decisions as to how it's going to impact them and the decisions they make."

Hammond and Coran say the dispute will end only when the teachers bill is repealed and teachers are allowed to bargain locally with each school board.

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  1. Richard Collins posted on 09/17/2012 05:52 PM
    Teachers, stop attacking the children. It will not get you what you want.
    1. Lee Becker posted on 09/17/2012 10:55 PM
      @Richard Collins Dearest Richard, (can I call you Dick?). In the last 10 years as an educator I have given, on average, 15 hours a week to children as a coach of 5 different sports. I have also spent countless hours running a grade 9 transition to highschool program. Have I not earned the right to decide how I will spend my unpaid non-contract hours? How many unpaid hours do you log a day earning your 'honest living'? How many adults visit you at your job and thank you for helping them do something with their lives? That is why I go to work everyday. I could care less about pay freezes and sick days. All I want is for my employer to have enough respect for the job that I do and to not bully me into accepting what ever scraps they throw my way. The good news is that the children I'm "attacking" will always have your football, basketball, rugby, peer mediation, link crew, drama trip, and strength training programs to turn to. You still run those in you spare time, right Dick?
  2. Angry Teacher posted on 09/17/2012 08:07 PM
    Unfortunately, the Liberals have left us no choice. We were willing to accept a 2-year wage freeze and other concessions, but the gov't would not sit down at the bargaining table. Instead they sent 2 bankruptcy lawyers and a former shill for the Conservatives and said take what we give you or we will pass a law to make you. I hope for your sake, Richard Collins, you aren't a union worker or in a profession that the gov't has decided that has to feel the pain.
    1. Richard Collins posted on 09/17/2012 10:13 PM
      @Angry Teacher Thankfully, I'm not in a union. I earn an honest wage, not one acheived through extortion and threats, and never once have I said to myself "I have no other option but to deprive children of something on behalf of my own entitlement."
  3. BramBoyz posted on 09/17/2012 08:15 PM
    Any form of work-to-rule will see the total demise of the teacher unions in Ontario. They have already lost the media and all public credibility. The silent majority of teachers don't want any more time and money wasted by union cranks. History will prove us right.
  4. MichaelB_2952 posted on 09/17/2012 08:21 PM
    I am in agreement with Angry Teacher and I disagree with Richard Collins. The withdrawl from extra-curricular activities by teacher is only the beginning. We teachers will restrict our responsibilities to teaching the curriculum to the students. As for Mr. Collins' comment that by "attacking the children. It will not get what you want," I will suggest that if teachers do nothing in terms of job action, we teachers will not get what we want which is a fairly negotiated contract.
    1. Chris Hadley posted on 09/17/2012 09:23 PM
      @MichaelB_2952 If anything, classroom students will benefit from having 100% of their teachers attention, instead of somebody who is trying to deliver curriculum as well as juggle a busy extra-curricular schedule.

      McGuinty, you insisted on the cuts, you shouldn't be surprised when we pull back in response.
  5. john pape posted on 09/18/2012 12:37 AM
    Extracurriculars will become mandatory. You read it first here.
  6. MichaelP posted on 09/18/2012 08:47 AM
    The teachers who are "choosing" to pull away from all extras are not only losing the public support but they are losing the support of most other teachers. This is the work of a desperate union and those teachers who are more committed to that union than they are to their students. It's a very sad.

    I completely understand why teachers are upset about how this was handled (though some of that feeling should be aimed at union leadership as well) but this course of action does nothing but upset parents,students, etc. They'd be much better served doing what they've done for years (the extras) and advertising the hell out of this to get the public on their side. Then they'd be in a much better position to do well in their next negotiation and more importantly create a good deal of goodwill with the public. This tactic of going through the courts (which will likely do nothing but burn through union dues) and having a quasi work to rule campaign looks incredibly petty. This is why the Catholic Teachers agreed to their deals earlier, their members don't have the great fortune of having to go through this mess.
    1. ross11 posted on 09/18/2012 07:27 PM
      @MichaelP There were several schools in my board yesterday where students held a walk-out or sit-in. ALL were in support of their teachers. From what I've seen on the news, most of the recent protests by students were in favour of their teachers. Students are smart enough to know that this Bill is undemocratic and their teachers have been left with no other option to make their voices heard. They understand by their protests that sometimes you have to stand up and walk out to make your point. FYI: I teach in the public system, so maybe our students just understand when democratic rights are being trampled on. They haven't been told to submit to authorities no matter what.
      I would love to hear you tell teachers in BC and Wiscosin that their court challenge was petty. They both won their incredibly similar court cases to ours.
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  7. ColleenC posted on 09/18/2012 12:44 PM
    It is really sad that the ones who suffer the most from all these disputes is the children. It is hard enough to keep kids active this day in age, and to take away their sports/activities at school because of a dispute with the school board is not fair to them. Really sad that we use children to bargain with. I am willing to stand by teachers but please (teachers and goverment) don't use my child as a bargaining tool.
  8. proton posted on 09/18/2012 01:05 PM
    generally the teachers that are sticking to the union rule and complain the loudest are also the lousiest teachers. get rid of them.

    Why should a fantastic teacher be paid the same salary as an incompetent teacher? the socialist experiment has been a failure. Pay the best teachers more and the lousy teacher much less or better still, get rid of them.

    There are so many teacher graduates looking for a job that it'd be easy to replace the lousy ones.

    These union rules reduce the quality of our education and only serve to hurt our students and the quality of the workforce.
    1. Richard Collins posted on 09/18/2012 01:15 PM
      @proton You raise a good point. The mindset of "the bare minimum is worth the same as excellence" is disgusting anywhere, but to bring it into our schools is just perverse.
  9. Only Common Sense posted on 09/20/2012 08:08 AM
    This whole mess was actually begun a long time ago by Mike Harris (remember him? ... he was the wannabe teacher who was denied his permanent teaching credentilals ... and who began his revenge with his amalgamation of boards farce). I would have expected a lot better from McGuinty, who should know better (after all ... his wife has her teaching credentials). If allowed to go the whole route, the legal challenge will be won by the teachers ... absolutely no doubt. For all you teacher haters - try just one typical day spent by an elementary teacher ... in the classroom the school yard the gymnasium monitoring the hallways and the bathrooms on the phone with the ever-increasing numbers of parents who abdicate their parental responsibilities attempting to keep order from the chaos caused by more and more children who have never heard the word "no" and who feel "entitled" rather than "responsible"... in the office ... after-hour planning sessions... at the computer keeping the records (read: "Keep the Board and the Government's asses covered)... etc., etc., etc. By the way, before you ask,I am not a teacher, I volunteer in my local elementary school to do some small part in helping the teachers cope with a virtually impossible job.
    1. MichaelP posted on 09/20/2012 08:44 AM
      @Only Common Sense The McGuinty government has been incredibly teacher friendly for their entire time in government. So much so that the unions have done out of their way to ensure his re-election. The legislation is not just about the teachers. It's about the mess the govt is facing and the inability for the govt (and this is their failure as well) being capable of negotiating these types of deals. This will hit the entire public sector, the govt has no choice here. It's either that or mass layoffs and I don't think anyone is interested in that.
    2. proton posted on 09/21/2012 10:15 AM
      @Only Common Sense why not go back to lester pearson and blame him for everything. harris hasn't been in power for about 15 years yet he's conveniently used as one excuse after another.

      mcguinty's been in power for 8 years - plenty of time to fix any perceived problem so stop blaming harris

      parents would love to help out however the unions prevent it as they perceive it as a threat, just like the guy who wanted to tend a public garden in toronto and was stopped because of the union.

      we have a mess at all levels of gov't and all those decades of bloated salaries, conditions, and pensions are coming to a head. way too many managers as well, the concept of only recognizing length of service vs quality is another problem
  10. Only Common Sense posted on 09/20/2012 09:24 AM
    Just another "fact" to be considered ... teachers had their wages frozen for 11 successive years through the 90's.... so, yes the McGuinty government would appear to be teacher-friendly. Any other gov't group go through that? ... I think not. If we really want to get serious about reigning in spending ... get the Harper one-man-show to pay attention to the pensions of ALL federal civil servants ... health benefits for life are not affordable by any society! ANY other worker would love to have that sizeable perk - yes ... including teachers (who, by the way, have their government pensions clawed back at age 65 because they already have a pension they helped pay for in the first place).
  11. Rick posted on 09/20/2012 12:08 PM
    Just get rid of the local school boards. They are no longer effective and have become bloated institutions of managers and consultants that spin the wheels, but get nothing done. Put the money back into the schools.
  12. Denise posted on 09/21/2012 10:57 AM
    If teachers want to be paid and treated like professionals then act like professionals. You can't be a professional with a union dictating your every move, with no ability to engage independently in the process of negotiating your own job and future. With any divergent opinion leading to union threats and outright blackballing. If you want to punch the clock then go ahead but don't be surprised by the backlash. And be prepared to work an extra 49 days like the rest of us, I would rather take the extra days and hire professionals to take over extracurriculars, and pay teachers less. And who's kidding who,as parents we are there, we see the majority of teachers are gone the minute the kids leave, that's rough and 61/2hr day. Financial security on the line what a joke. Your union put you in this position by threatening to strike at every contract negotiation and you all think this is the way business is done. Your antiquated union is what is causing the hostile environment, and they will be responsible for the right wing backlash. Thanks guys.
  13. Denise posted on 09/21/2012 11:01 AM
    The teachers can use their taxpayer subsidized giant legal team to negotiate this in court. The unions have used extracurriculars for years to bargain better wages, step up and act like professionals.
  14. Only Common Sense posted on 09/22/2012 04:57 AM
    The largest "self-inflicted" turning point in Ontario finances was certainly the Harris / Eves era. To deny that is to admit the inability one might have in reading and understanding history. Having said that - your final two points are completely correct ( "we have a mess at all levels of gov't and all those decades of bloated salaries, conditions, and pensions are coming to a head. way too many managers as well, the concept of only recognizing length of service vs quality is another problem").
    The McGuinty government suffers from a combination of the following three issues : 1. His 8 years began at a time of world-wide financial downturn while inheriting the Harris mess;
    2. It suffered through yet another world-wide downturn (2008); and
    3. Virtually ALL of the "bloated conditions" to which you refer were initiated (i.e. - allowed to happen) under the so-called fiscal conservatism of of the likes of Harris.
    The true test in this mess will be if the Tories and the Liberals have the resolve to do to the provincial civil servants (who, in far too may cases do very little of value for their money) what they are doing to the teachers. Let's start with eliminating about half of the "managers" and not just this token warning shot delivered by Dwight Duncan. From there we can begin to allocate resources where they will do some good.
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