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Magder Wants Mayor's Conflict of Interest Ruling Overturned

Posted By: Newstalk 1010 · 3/15/2013 11:54:00 AM

The man who almost managed to have Toronto Mayor Rob Ford turfed from office is hoping the country's top court will hear the case.
    
Paul Magder is asking the Supreme Court of Canada to overturn a ruling that allowed Ford to stay in the mayor's chair.
    
In his application, Magder says the case raises novel questions about the powers of municipalities to govern themselves and to hold public officials to account.
    
Last fall, an Ontario court ordered Ford removed from office for violating conflict laws by taking part in a vote in which he had a financial interest.
    
Ford, however, argued on appeal to Divisional Court that the ruling was in error, and the court sided with him on what was essentially a technicality.
    
It could be many months before the Supreme Court decides whether to hear the case.
    
(The Canadian Press)

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  1. proton posted on 03/15/2013 12:18 PM
    hope ford nails magder's sorry ass for the costs. supreme court too smart to hear this tripe. just more grandstanding by the left
    1. Walter posted on 03/15/2013 12:25 PM
      @proton The only good thing is that if (when) the Supreme Court turns down this appeal, it will be more conclusive proof that the whole thing was a nuisance lawsuit and not one of "public good" as Ruby had stated before. It will just increase the chances that Ford will be 100% compensated for all legal costs.
  2. Keith m posted on 03/15/2013 12:22 PM
    This is just sad. Give it a rest guys, you lost.
  3. Brandon posted on 03/15/2013 12:23 PM
    OK, I don't like Rob Ford as a mayor, but lets just drop this case now.

    Yes, he did vote one something he should not have voted on. However it was determined that there wasn't even supposed to be a vote, and therefore on a technicality he was exonerated.

    It's done. Over. Move along now. The more people lump on to him now without having an actual valid issue the more of a boost they are giving him in the public. People are probably not going to vote him out if he keeps getting attacked by people that can't seem to let things go.
    1. CoffeeCon posted on 03/18/2013 06:23 PM
      @Brandon Not getting voted out either way, there's no other choice or we're sunk.
  4. Karen posted on 03/15/2013 01:18 PM
    Is this guy for real?!!!!! He is make himself look like more and more of a desperate jack ass and he is just putting things more and more in Ford's favour....him and all the other flakes that are trying to make him look bad. I can tell you one thing though.....I wouldn't care how much trouble I was in I wouldn't use Ruby for a lawyer evn if it was pro bono. Magder and Ruby are really lacking something in their lives to be this vindictive and mean soirited.....it sure doesn't bode well for them.
    1. karen posted on 03/15/2013 02:22 PM
      @Karen Jsut want to add one thing. Check out that picture of those 2 Bozos!!!!!
  5. proton posted on 03/15/2013 05:17 PM
    cfrb keeps going to the same specialist lawyer on municipal affairs who obviously couldn't get it right with the verdict. my impression is this guy has a bias favouring magder's side. he also happens to be in the same firm as the worst mayor this city every had, david miller.

    how about trying a more qualified lawyer regarding the supreme court. i'm no lawyer but i'd bet dollars to donuts they won't hear the case
    1. Karen posted on 03/15/2013 05:27 PM
      @proton I'm with you on that Proton. I don't think they will either. They just have to look at these 2 clowns to know what idiots they are. Ruby is a disgrace to his profession, and all of the nut jobs involved in this farce are just plai disgraces period.
  6. ted posted on 03/15/2013 05:35 PM
    Magder is a goof. People should lobby his energy company employer to fire him.
  7. EM posted on 03/17/2013 07:43 AM
    Karen

    Because we lost independent reporting. Reporting these days became a back pack of politicians. And this is where as an African I get a very good lesson for I have got a look on both sides of the isle. In Africa you get an Iddi Amin and he stays in power dictating what he needs to be done. In Western countries you get money and buy every radio station and every television station. Doesn’t it bother you that all talk radio stations in Toronto are owned by conservatives? How democratically healthy is that? So what CFRB states is what 640 news states so is what Sun news states and the journey continues. And here is where is becomes a real problem, politicians get better for they are attacked by the press, now tell me how a press attacks a conservative leader when the press its self is owned by the conservatives. Democratic principles fail to prevail the moment you cut out free reporting. I have been paralyzed when I see CFRB raising up to defend Rob Ford before he opens up his mouth to self-defend, now that is no longer a talk radio it is a Rob Ford mouth piece, and that is not wrong, until when you realize that they don’t even report the facts, reporting is supposed to be about facts, so if you are reporting facts, if a Liberal does something right you have to report it, for that is a fact. Apparently they do not. And I can give you several examples on how they have omitted the facts. And here is where it becomes a problem, we can stand and elect a Liberal government in Ontario, but CFRB is a Conservative owned radio station, and yet it is a major radio station that we have listened to for a very long time, what happens to the reporting? And no you cannot change from it for whoever owns it bought out 640 news and bought out Sun TV and soon, so due to his pocket you do not even have an option of a different view. You do not even have an option to change. It dies out for the station now starts to be anti-people and their wish. So what is of more value, is it my vote or having money? What is of more value, is it getting a good policy and you sell it or having cash that can buy out every single radio station and you get your voice out there and heard by hiring talk show hosts that sell you 24 7?

    That is why I opposed the caricature of we are fighting in Iraq and we have our reporters embedded into the army, the moment you start to get them embedded into the army you have lost independent reporting. Radio stations and Television stations used to survive for they pay for themselves, both fighting sides respect them for they are independent and report facts on both sides. That is why they held banner very wide reading “press”. These days they put on armor for they are embedded. Now if Jerry Agar is embedded into an American army to report to us, and it is the American army protecting him, tell me how he reports when an American soldier rapes an Iraqi woman, and yet that should have been his job. That is how we have lost democratic principles for we are poor, and we are not buying broadcasting centers. Start to be very worried about how Conservatives are buying and pilling up all radio stations and television stations and talk radios into one conglomerate. Because with that hold on information, you have an Iddi Amin sitting right in front of you.

    And the talk show hosts are simply suckers feeding on it.

    EM
    Toronto
    1. Karen posted on 03/17/2013 10:28 AM
      @EM EM....I want nothing to do with your hateful rantings. You and I are not and never will be on the same page. We don't live in a conspiracy ridden country. You are an angry, racist and negative person, please don't refer your conversations to me again.
    2. Sean posted on 03/17/2013 03:12 PM
      @EM How long have you been a crack head EM?
    show more replies
  8. EM posted on 03/17/2013 11:13 AM
    Karen

    Of course you are right, so to you we survive for The conservatives own all talk radio stations. Tell me when did you hear about our Federal government politics? Do we have a Federal government? What does it do? We sent our armed forces to Libya, how many went? What did they do there? How much did we spent? What parliament authorized it? Then answer is no one actually knows for a very simple reason that they were not sent by The Liberals, had they been sent by the Liberals we would have sliced every single nickel in asking the questions. Now this is not a problem today, but when you will get a dictatorial conservative he will bury you, for we have lost a line between reporters and politicians. That is how nepotism crawls into society it starts by creeping in independent reporting. And then it feeds on stupid brains. Democratic principles can never be of value to you for you have never lived the other side of it. Consider the years the Conservatives lead this province, year after year after year, for that is how you reasoned. How has politics changed in this province to even give the liberal a long term? Because those of us as immigrants that value democratic principles have started to vote, and we know the value of democracy. And until when we change Ottawa, Stephen Harper will piss on your leg and you will always call it rain.

    The very same crap we have in the city.

    EM
    Toronto
    1. Karen posted on 03/17/2013 12:06 PM
      @EM Why do you stay in this country if you hate and disdain it so much. Nothing or no one is forcing you to put up with this "terrible country" run by such "terrible people". Show a little more respect for this country that you have all kinds of freedoms in and that you can write your hateful rants and not be thrown in jail
  9. EM posted on 03/17/2013 06:29 PM
    Karen

    You ask a very good question that deserves a response. I am in this country and I cannot leave for I have nowhere to go. I happen to have a continent that has what you need to run your own life style. And kindly let me educate you that your life style is not paid by the 15% tax you pay that is pure nonsense. It is paid by my continent and my country being ravaged and stolen left and center. And I will just open a little window that you realize why snow is pounding some of us when we would actually not been here. In the very many testimonies that have been put out there let me post you only one given expert testimony, so that you realize that you have no right let alone moral right to question why I am in this country when I am the one burying those that die, and a good example is Democratic Republic of Congo where 8 million are dead as you read this writing. Read this testament then I will be more than glad to clarify to you why I am in this country. Bottom line I am here so that poor you breath an air for it is paid for. Karen get out of my continent and I will be on the next flight out.

    Unbelievable !!!!!!

    EM
    1. Mark posted on 03/17/2013 08:49 PM
      @EM What a fool you are.
  10. EM posted on 03/17/2013 06:35 PM
    Karen

    This is why I am stuck here and for a near seeable future for I have nowhere to go unless you leave. I had a country and today I have mass graves madam.

    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/politics/blood_sparkle.html

    EM
    1. Karen posted on 03/17/2013 08:57 PM
      @EM Sorry EM, not taking blame for your woes or your maniacal take on the world. You are a scary man.
  11. Frank posted on 03/17/2013 07:38 PM
    Doesn't anybody see that Magder is nothing more than a puppet for the destructive left? Even Clay Ruby (also a lefty) tried to tell the public that his client is only a concerned citizen and that is why he is acting pro bono for him. Give your head a shake! Why would someone who is just a concerned citizen be so focused on this attack of a decent mayor who's only mistake was a simple error in judgement. I guess both Mr. Magder and Mr. Ruby have never stumbled as they walked through life.
    1. Karen posted on 03/17/2013 08:55 PM
      @Frank Frank, very nicely said, and so true,
    2. CoffeeCon posted on 03/18/2013 06:28 PM
      @Frank To err is human, to forgive; divine.
  12. EM posted on 03/17/2013 10:37 PM
    Karen

    Just for your education, on top of what I posted to you to read, this report is coming out about 2 hours ago. Reuters is reporting that Royal Dutch Shell is going to spend 661 million pounds or a billion dollars in Iraq to develop its self an oil field. And that will be in addition to Exxon Mobil, Chevron Coporation and Gazprom in line to loot Bagdad dry. Why is this information important for you to know? Because there are so many Iraqis running out of Iraq as immigrants to this country. They have suffered a great deal and all they need is to live a very quiet life and get their kids to grow sensibly form the anarchy we have planted in their county to allow our companies to loot them dry.

    Never ever bleat the sentence go back to your country, again, for it is very annoying for it only comes from a cesspool of ignorance on why you live as a Canadian.

    EM
    1. Karen posted on 03/17/2013 11:02 PM
      @EM In simple terms EM......shut up, nobody wants to hear your shit and nobody listens to your shit. Save your idiotic rants for someone who cares.
  13. EM posted on 03/17/2013 11:36 PM
    Karen

    Much of the insecurity we suffer today in Western countries are caused by Arabs because they refused your kind of shallow attacks. And yet we as Africans have lost so many people in our continent due to looting our continent. All way from South Africa and apartheid to Democratic Republic of Congo where every woman from 9 years has been raped but 9 million people dead. Karen getting France to move out of Rwanda so that we can use it to lot DRC created a Rwandese genocide and we moved very fast to change Rwandese language from French to English. Lieutenant General Romeo Antonius Dallaire a Canadian senator today, was commanding at the airport at a time. It was as coming to Canada and instruct all Canadians to speak and study in Portuguese. United Kingdom tripled its import of small weapons into Africa last year. Tony Blair and Clair Short have permanent offices in Kigali and Kampala respectfully to monitor the loot of Democratic Republic of Congo. And I can go over and over all these very minor details of discomfort to you. What I am trying to raise here is that I am very glad that we as Africans have taken all of this in very brave stride. We have accepted all deaths and we are working very hard to change this tide, unlike Arabs that have decided to blow up every one they find. Until when you look into a mass grave as I have done, until when you are carried on a truck of dead people and you are dumped on a lake then you wake up alive 2 days later as I was, don’t ever ask me why I am in this country. For trust me it is not fun to be into it but I am and I think I have done way better than those born into it and white.

    And one just hopes I ma getting through to you for this kind of stupidity needs to be nipped

    EM
    1. conspiracy theorist posted on 03/18/2013 01:13 AM
      @EM EM has it all right....but he's listening to the wrong radio station--RS has been off 1010 for a few years...
      Ask Boris W.. about conspiracies...and any other recently-defeated politician....except maybe, mitt romney!
    2. karen posted on 03/18/2013 09:12 AM
      @EM Stop trying to make white people feel guilty for being white. I am sick and tired of it. Canada is a great, free, and welcoming country, one of the greatest in the world. I love it and appreciate it. If you don't love and appreciate it, shut up, because I and many others don't want to hear it. i am sorry of your pkight in Afgrica, I did not cause it and neither did OUR fellow Canadians, Canada has given you a safe refuge and a hand up, you get to enjoy many of the freedoms and social stuctures of our country (yours and mine). So please, stop spewing shit about your fellow Canadians and white people. We have been a peaceful country with no racial tension and we would like to keep it that way. Stop stirring the pot.
    show more replies
  14. sally posted on 03/18/2013 10:39 AM
    Mr. Ruby likes to say that the Mayor won on a technicality, but it just isn't true. Jurisdiction is the whole thing in any legal case, and it lies at the core of this matter. There was no jurisdiction to find against the mayor.
  15. EM posted on 03/18/2013 10:45 AM
    Karen

    It is very interesting that you use a term to stir the pot, well let us talk about the Kenya election that happened only last week. Photographs were all over the place on how those you call stupid Africans were voting, what was never reported is that in the many Western countries that took their army into Kenya on this election, only United Kingdom had 10,000 soldiers. They termed them 2 battle groups of 5,000 soldiers, which totals to 10,000. Now I am not listing the Americans, The French, probably the Canadian JTF2 (If you even know what that means} was there I do not know. Now I am very careful in numbers I post to you, for I know the rough idea of how many Western soldiers were planted into Kenya last week, but I will only state ten thousand for that is what The Daily Telegraph of London reported last about Wednesday or Thursday. So those whites you praise have massive interest into Africa to that level. It does not matter how many Kenyans vote the decision is not in the vote, but in the thousands of soldiers planted in the country. And if their man does not win they can kill half the country. That is what is happening in the real world out there. Karen Africa has a river Nile which starts from Lake Victoria to The Mediterranean. It pumps water to all countries from Sudan to Libya to Israel. Every fresh water you see in those countries comes from Lake Victoria through river Nile. Who pays for it? Suppose that water was flowing from Israel to the African countries would have it handed it to them for free? Who defends that continent?
    I have said and I repeat myself that there are so many very angry Africans in these cities but we have taken it with a stride for we know we can change the situation by changing policies in these countries and by educating people like you that are seriously un informed of what these countries are capable of doing out there. And we are not asking for too much, continue to loot Africa send as many companies as you so want, but stop to kill innocent people. China is looting Africa why are we not complaining about it? It does not murder people. Let me go back to Kenya, it is a such a small country that the entire East Africa which has Kenya Tanzania and Uganda are smaller than The Province of Ontario, so Kenya is about the region of Ottawa probably. And you send in 10,000 foreign soldiers? How do you justify that if whites have nothing to do with the African stupidity? And Africans fail in an election which sends them to University Ave. to demonstrate and Karen says they should not bring their home problems on our city. Are you kidding me? You screwed their election to start with.

    Don’t poke people’s eyes for you are dealing with angry but understanding people, and if you are un informed on what your governments do out there, remain in your condo and close the door.

    Geez !!!!!

    EM
    1. karen posted on 03/18/2013 10:50 AM
      @EM This isn't the forum for your rants. So please........stop it!!!!
    2. CoffeeCon posted on 03/18/2013 06:49 PM
      @EM The troops are there so that there can be an election without anyone being hacked to pieces by their fellow citizens with a machete. The western countries are very much in favour of the less insane dictator to be in charge.

      "Photographs were all over the place on how those you call stupid Africans were voting"

      Nobody called Africans stupid, except for you. It seems like you need to spend some time in school. You certainly have much life experience, but your comments are very immature and prejudiced against the people and country who saved you from those terrible conditions; and against white people in particular.

      Nobody is 'out to get you'. Also, the companies that are purchasing the natural resources of Africa are paying for them. A percentage of profit is paid to the corrupt government, and salaries are paid to the workers. I will agree with you, that the salaries are terrible- but certainly there isn't much competition for labour.

      If the violence and corruption were reduced, and intelligent leaders could be installed, then africa might be able to stop killing itself with superstitions regarding AIDS, might be able to manufacture wells and sanitary toilets for iteself, and then further work it's way up the industrialization ladder to a place where it can legitimately compete on the world stage.

      For now, it's a disaster of a country that needs charitable contributions so that its own people don't starve to death. You are probably familiar with the aid trucks delivering rice and clean water, yes? And the troops that are there to protect them, and the Doctors Without Borders.

      In summary, you need to settle down! You're very angry at the wrong problem and the wrong people. You want to be angry? Be angry at the dictators who steal all the donations that are sent to those countries. Be angry at the warlords and racism that has ruined your homeland. And DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

      Set up a charity and raise more money, and build a school there; or whatever you think will be the best and most helpful thing to do. Canadians are trying to help, but if you think we're doing it not the best way, then join a charity or NGO and teach them what is the best way.

      Hope that helps you, and good luck in your future.
  16. Sally s posted on 03/18/2013 10:52 AM
    It was very telling that even the Divisional Court noted it hadn't bothered to review all of the pertinent facts ( See end of decision) because, in fact, the Divisional Court had many more grounds on which it could have found in the Mayor's favour, but chose to rule on only one. A fuller better ruling would have served justice better by dissuading another mis-fire from the big-spending status-quo gravy train fighters from the pre-election era, before 2010. Better performance from this oddball court, aimed more at full proper rulings, and less politics, would remove so many cogs from Canadian justice.
  17. Jimmy posted on 03/19/2013 04:24 PM
    All these Left Wing conspericies only reinforce my voting for Rob Ford. I will vote for Rob just to spite you SOB's.
  18. EM posted on 03/19/2013 05:40 PM
    Jimmy

    And by the time you blink, we will strike you with a majority in Ottawa, in a manner that will surprise your face. For if we will ever dream of serious policy changes especially in our countries, we need The Liberals in Ottawa AND with a majority.

    And trust me we do not have the talk radios but we have the votes.

    EM
    1. Jeff posted on 03/19/2013 06:19 PM
      @EM I have read some of your crazy rants and your conspiracy theories EM. Who is "we", some of your racist, crazy friends and cohorts? If people like you are the ilk of the Liberal voters, this country really is going to hell in a handbasket if the Liberals are a majority. Not gonna happen though my racist, crazy friend. You aren't taking the country over in the very near future, so get those plans out of your crazy ass head.
  19. EM posted on 03/19/2013 07:00 PM
    Jeff

    Long ago my grandmother stood up and raised an argument that the Goat my grandfather wanted to slaughter for Easter, was pregnant. And in my culture no one slaughters a pregnant animal. But my grandfather was very close to these animals for he would know what animal is pregnant and what animal is not. This Goat was getting really old and having a problem feeding, but she was very close to becoming a strain on those taking care of her. My grandmother declared a battle on who ever slaughters that Goat. The argument ended with my grandfather making only one statement, yes I know you love that Goat but the she is being slaughtered tomorrow. On the pregnancy of it, why are we arguing about it when she is going to be cut open tomorrow? We will know the facts after she is opened up.

    Why should I bet money on you argument when one of those days an election will be called? Geez !!!!

    EM
    On the 49th
    1. Jeff posted on 03/19/2013 07:09 PM
      @EM You are a twisted individual. If you read through your many threads you have very few, if any people who agree with you. Don't spew your hateful, twisted views here. No wonder the Liberals are just about dead! They have supporters like you.
  20. EM posted on 03/20/2013 07:48 PM
    Jeff

    Well let us not go all over the place, this thread was not even about Africa, it went there for some quark Canadian that thinks that whites are very good people and we need to kneel down on our God damn knees to thank them for they supply that bowel of porridge. Karen forgets that some of us have actually been thanking white people all our entire lives, I mean they brought knew hand cuffs when shipping us out than Arabs that were tying us with sheer ropes, I mean who never wanted to be traded by a white man !!!!! But today let us not base our debates on you must praise a white man for he is the best you have ever seen in your life. We need to go with facts and provable facts, and they remain Africa is tired of being used. And I do not think it is only my self-looking at this issue to wonder why Western countries cannot stop and change path, I mean I was reading my notice today and The President of The People’s Republic of China Xi Jinping is starting journey to visit Africa from March 22nd to March 30th . Countries to be visited are Tanzania South Africa and The Democratic Republic of Congo. He is going to pass in Russia as well for this is a huge delegation he has of all kinds of investors. It amazes me why this is not news anywhere. And why? For as The West has been pumping all these wars, and mining, China has looted without supporting anyone with a gun. Is this man targeting DRC to take it from the West? Why is DRC that important to him? Yet all my nerves tell me that China has no right to loot Africa, Stephen Harper and The last Canadian Governor General deal with men like Museveni of Uganda, men like Kabila of DRC men like Kagame of Rwanda. And they drink with them as the whole world screams bloody murder. Which by the way never happened under the Liberals.

    This team is good in Africa for we have had a black president that has helped no squat in the continent. Look I hated GWB for his foreign policies but that man pumped so much money into Africa that all alive HIV positive man woman you see is alive thanks to GWB. He started a term cocktail in Africa. And when he left the Obama administration started to cut it out that in months we will start to see the damages of Obama. President Obama is in Israel today, the single largest problem we have as Africans with Israel is a forced birth control on all women Israel bring in from Ethiopia, that has bothered every sensible human being and demonstrations have been done all over the place. Will Obama address it? Not a chance. So the man is useless to even his own continent, how will he create jobs from this trip? And now China is heading in to get a hand on Congo. One wonders who Karen will blame this time around, again me who hates this society that much and who should leave, or whites are simply too shallow to steal with brains? Just asking !!!!!!! When you look at the billions The West uses out there to arm every nonsense that pop up, if it only used it for good will, society would have been a better place to live in trust me.

    For it is simply too much yet all just wasted.

    EM
  21. Observer posted on 03/20/2013 10:06 PM
    Why are we still discussing this "news"?
    I can understand that in the middle of the summer the "news" like that can be alive for that long. We know who did it and why - does it need any more attention. What a waist of time.
  22. kenfromcanada posted on 03/20/2013 10:24 PM
    'Israel is a forced birth control on all women Israel bring in from Ethiopia,' ????

    EM - you are a racist, ill-informed, bigot, and - EVEN WORSE -anti-Canadian - asshole. GO BACK FROM WHENCE YOU CAME ALREADY!

    LOL - there, I broke my own rule against swearing in print.
    1. Karen posted on 03/20/2013 10:49 PM
      @kenfromcanada Thnk you Ken from Canafa. EM is a very menacing, scary racist. This is who are behind the Liberals theses days. They can't be gone soon enough!
  23. EM posted on 03/21/2013 02:15 AM
    Kenfromcanada

    Computers are free in this country and you have one today, use it to verify what is happening around you then go after me. It gets very complex to go into issues with you when you sit and only wait for information from Globe and Mail. Search what is happening to immigrant women from Ethiopia to Israel you will be very surprised. Do you really think I can drum up such a statement? To what end? In all protests that have happened and in all hunger strikes that have happened in protest to such poor government behavior you have not read it anywhere?
    Get informed my dear friend for tomorrow such a policy is going to be passed on you.

    Then wonder why it is never reported by the press you read.

    EM
  24. EM posted on 03/21/2013 02:15 AM
    Kenfromcanada

    Computers are free in this country and you have one today, use it to verify what is happening around you then go after me. It gets very complex to go into issues with you when you sit and only wait for information from Globe and Mail. Search what is happening to immigrant women from Ethiopia to Israel you will be very surprised. Do you really think I can drum up such a statement? To what end? In all protests that have happened and in all hunger strikes that have happened in protest to such poor government behavior you have not read it anywhere?
    Get informed my dear friend for tomorrow such a policy is going to be passed on you.

    Then wonder why it is never reported by the press you read.

    EM
    1. Observer 2 posted on 03/21/2013 07:49 AM
      @EM EM since you are obviously a MORON, I will try and put this In simple terms.....SHUT THE HELL UP! Nobody wants to read your shit anymore. In fact nobody F****N cares what you have to say.
  25. EM posted on 03/21/2013 08:41 AM
    That is a fair stand, just don’t stand up in public and claim that I am lying, so let us keep quiet for it will go away. 20 years we have taken going after children AID Society, have you seen any Canadian complaining? Nope keep quite it will go away. Today the kids have turned into adult zombies and knifing and killing people on streets, a Canadian goes what happened? Twenty years and no one speaks about it the press does not and neither Canadians. Shut up no one needs to listen. Have you ever seen a raise in cases and every one popping up is a mental case as they show up these days? Well where did we lose the ball?

    Shut up don’t talk indeed !!!!!

    EM
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