1. @Angry Bill My gut feeling is that Council will reverse itself given the appalling ridership and cost figures that have finally come out, and Tory will vote for the subway so he can defend himself come election time.
  2. Tory should be ashamed for playing the race card, claiming that [summarizing] "downtown subway opponents hate Scarborough because it's full of immigrants."

    1) Those who support the fully-funded, 7-stop light rail over a single, $3-billion subway stop don't just live downtown. The Leger poll proved that Torontonians everywhere prefer the 7-stop LRT over the (then 3-stop, now 1-stop) subway:

    - 61% Torontowide prefer the LRT
    - Even in Scarborough, 56% prefer the LRT

    2) Those who support the LRT know that it'll be:

    - Built faster
    - Cost much less
    - Leave tons of money for additional rapid-transit projects
    - Run at 90% the speed of a subway (it's either offroad/elevated, or in its own dedicated lane with traffic-signal priority)
    - And more Scarborough residents will want to ride it.

    These are all hard numbers from impartial transit professionals, not false arguments from vote-buying politicians.

    3) Those who oppose the $3-billion, one-stop subway don't want to deprive Scarborough of transit — they want to build THE MOST transit to serve THE MOST Scarborough residents.

    Everyone, please stop listening to the lies spouted by Tory, Duguid and DeBaeremaker. The one-stop subway's non-stop cost overruns can gobble up all Scarborough transit money, leaving them with a single subway stop—and residents stuck with slow. bumpy, lurching buses all over Scarborough in order to GET TO that subway.

    You want "first-class" rapid transit, Scarborough?

    Imagine 45 minutes on a crowded bus in order to reach the only new subway stop for all of Scarborough.

    Now imagine stations so close you can walk directly to them, and enjoy a rail-smooth ride past all those traffic tie-ups. Now _there's_ first-class transit.
  3. @JayR2 Slavery, residential schools, Japanese internment camps were all "the law" in their day, yet fully deserving of an official apology once society evolved past the respective hatreds. The same applies to bringing down prostitution-related charges on hundreds of men meeting, mostly one-on-one behind closed room doors, for sex that involved no money exchanging hands.

    These were victimless crimes. The police had plenty of murders and rapes to investigate, yet they mobilized dozens of officers to round up gays. I find your sex-club argument a red herring—the police most certainly targeted the gay community.
  4. @lynnea Why? Because Toronto alone generates 20% of Canada's GDP. When your local bridge gets repaired, you get a new school, or your hospital gets upgrades, you have Toronto to thank for 1/5 of that, even though most of us "will never set foot" in your town, either.

    And with congestion hobbling that GDP by $6 billion every year, anyone with grade-3 math would understand why investing in Toronto transit quickly pays for itself, then generates dividends every year for the entire country.
  5. @AbbyW Workload 30% of the private sector? Surely you have a verifiable study to back up such a strong statement… right?

    And I hate to break it to you, but politicians *are* representatives of the taxpayers — that's the very essence of our system of participative democracy.
  6. @spicygarage Pardon the brain fart. The new LRT line won't actually reach into Malvern ,stopping 1 km from its southern border. But it does mean that Malvern residents will only need to ride buses for 10 minutes to reach rapid transit, vs. 26 minutes for the subways-only plan.
  7. @Will Will, thank you for your measured response.

    Short version: even if subways are more reliable than LRT by a tiny fraction, the fact that they cost 300% as much to build means that for every km of new subway operating near 100%, there are TWO km of subway operating at 0%. LRT brings more transit to more neighbourhoods and more people.

    Long version:

    Although our subways do get knocked out by ice (20% of our subways runs aboveground), they are a bit more reliable than 100%-surface rail, yes. I don't have hard facts on reliability, but let's do some quick math here.

    Our 30-year old streetcars have antiquated pneumatic systems prone to failure in extremely-cold weather. How much downtime does each experience in a year? I'd say less than a day, i.e. less than 0.3% of the time — so streetcars are reliable over 99% of the time.

    The new streetcars (and LRT) use different systems much more resilient to extreme cold, but let's pretend LRT would use 30-year old streetcars, just for fun.

    Since the same money builds 3 times as much LRT as subways, you could add 15 km of new rapid transit and get:

    - 15 km of rapid transit running 99% of the time

    - 5 km of rapid transit running almost 100% of the time
    - 10 km of rapid transit running 0% of the time (because it wouldn't exist)

    Southeast/East/Northeast Scarborough residents currently stuck on 19 km/h buses for 45 minutes to reach the nearest rapid-transit stop would kill to live on or near a 27 km/h rapid-transit line, even if its vehicles were replaced by buses one day a year. That's the difference between Ford's all-subway plan and Tory's subway-plus-12-km-of-LRT plan.
  8. @City Slicker Most Torontonians will never live close enough to a subway. They currently have to wait outside, in the Canadian climate, for a bus to take them to the subway. They would still have to wait outside for an LRT, but with the LRT, they would immediately be _on_ rapid transit — not have to endure a 20-minute bus ride to even get _to_ rapid transit.

    Subways are so expensive that cancelling 2 subway stops creates an entire 12-km, 17-stop rapid-transit line where there were only slow, bumpy, lurching buses.

    But all you see is the indignity of having to wait in the freezing cold. Ironic that you would choose Rosedale subway, an above-ground subway stop exposed to the freezing winds rushing in through either end every time a subway enters or leaves. Have you ever been on that platform? Rosedale is brutal in winter.
  9. @Will Scuttlebutt from City Hall shows this plan has near-unanimous support from Councillors on the Left, Centre and Right.

    Evidence-based transit watchers love LRT where appropriate because it moves people 85% as fast as a subway, but at 1/3 the build cost — which is why it's successfully used worldwide to bring tons of rapid transit to suburbs with nowhere the density appropriate for subways.

    And finally: worldwide evidence shows that a single lane of road can only move 2,400 max. people/hour per direction (pphpd) if dedicated to cars, compared to 15,000-25,000 pphpd with LRT. You don't need Left-wing politics to support LRT in Scarborough — you just need basic math.
  10. @LoretoS "World-class cities", as you say, use buses where appropriate, streetcars where appropriate, LRT where appropriate, and subways (wait for it) where appropriate.

    Scarborough is getting 18 rapid-transit stops instead of 3.

    12 km more rail lines, finally connecting Malvern, which desperately needs it, to the rest of the city. Not to mention the Scarborough University campus.

    Rapid transit within walking distance of 5 times more people.

    All for the same cost.

    One would have to really be willfully blind to argue that this plan is garbage.