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UPDATE: Executive committee backs 2.23% tax increase

If approved, would increase the average tax bill by $56

Next stop for Toronto's 2014 budget: city council.

On Wednesday, the city's executive committee approved a new taxation scheme for the year that would see property taxes on the average Toronto home go up by $56.

All in, the hike amounts to 2.23%. Councillors directly approved a 1.75% city hike, including a levy to fund the Scarborough subway extension. There is also a 0.48% hit mandated by the province in a move to transfer some tax burden from industrial customers to residential. Councillors have no control over that number.

City staff floated a tax increase of as much as 3.21% earlier in the day, but with some tweaking, councillors were able to bring it down.

The committee voted to expect greater revenue from the municipal share of the land transfer tax, the tax the mayor wants rolled back by 5% and eventually eliminated.

Councillor David Shiner doesn't think counting on more cash is risky, "We've never been short", he said after the vote.

Shiner also expects the city will finish the year with a surplus in the $100-million range because some city departments are understaffed.  He says if the city somehow comes in short on the land transfer tax take, the surplus can help make up the difference.

Rob Ford was the lone vote against the new spending plan. On Wednesday he repeated his assertion that he can come up with "well over $50-million" in savings.

Ford challenged city manager Joe Pennachetti about the number of managers and directors in a number of city departments. Pennachetti didn't have up-to-date statistics available, but said he would have them when council meets next.

Full council will debate the budget January 29th.  At that meeting, Ford plans to introduce a series of motions aimed at finding cost savings. He has suggested that contracting out garbage collection east of Yonge St and some care of Toronto's trees will be on his list. Ford has also hinted at a move to collect outstanding fines from the court system and libraries and staff cuts in a number of city departments. Ford says the changes would have little or no impact on service.

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  1. Ernie posted on 01/22/2014 01:51 PM
    "Staff floats" - Gee Mom and Dad - can I have.......But I Want it !
  2. fran posted on 01/22/2014 01:57 PM
    there milking the cow again
  3. Frankie posted on 01/22/2014 02:21 PM
    This city council is dysfunctional. We need someone with balls to go in and REALLY study expenses. There are billions being wasted and nobody has the guts (nor the support of the majority of council) to address the waste.

    Example - over a period of 5 days I watched 3 city workers tend to a tiny flower bed that any private gardener could have done with 1 other person in about an hour.

    We all know what needs to be done. Unfortunately these self-serving councillors and city management will never do anything that puts them out of a job or makes them work harder.

    I'd love to see a provincial gov't legislate a reduction in councillors to 22/23, the same number of ridings we have federally/provincially for a start.
    1. Karl Burgin posted on 01/22/2014 03:28 PM
      @Frankie "I'd love to see a provincial gov't legislate a reduction in councillors to 22/23,.."
      Unfortunately with the people currently in power, that's only a pipe dream.
    2. donny p. posted on 01/22/2014 04:25 PM
      @Karl Burgin Until you live, vote, and pay taxes in Toronto, nobody gives a rat's ass what you think. Get your butt out of Toronto politics, come back when you're one of us and live under this administration. My taxes and service costs, like water and sewage, have gone way up since that asshole Ford got to be mayor. Just leave and don't come back until you know what you're talking about. We're miserable enough without a jerk like you telling us what to think and do.

      Get lost, Troll.
    3. Karl Burgin posted on 01/22/2014 04:49 PM
      @donny p. Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!! Ford more years!!!!!!
    4. donny p. posted on 01/22/2014 04:54 PM
      @Karl Burgin proves my point, you're nothing more than an ignorant, very stupid jerk. People that live here are actually really getting pissed at outsiders telling us what to think and do.

      You only an ignorant asshole, but thanks for proving my point. Just leave, nobody likes an ignorant know it all who tells us he's better than the people that actually live in Toronto.

      Get lost, TROLL.
    5. Karl Burgin posted on 01/22/2014 05:03 PM
      @donny p. Nope...only to you.
    6. Peter posted on 01/22/2014 05:20 PM
      @Karl Burgin He does make a good point. People who don't live in Toronto are in no position to make intelligent comments on what happens here and the impact of a dysfunctional mayor on the residents. Their opinions are somewhat meaningless as they don't have the experience to formulate an educated point of view.

      Reviewing your comments, Karl, it's obvious that you base your opinions on a misguided ideology rather than first hand experience. Perhaps you should reconsider your comments as those that live in this city know that you can't be taken seriously.

      I'll continue to skim this section, but you know that every time you comment on our mayor, most of us that know will be laughing.
    7. Karl Burgin posted on 01/22/2014 06:13 PM
      @Peter I respectfully will have to disagree with you.
      As for my comment to Donny P., that was really meant only for him- as that seems to be the only level of intelligent conversation he seems to be able to handle.
      But as to your point about people outside of Toronto having an opinion, I have already went in depth about this, and as to why your stance is not true. I'm not going to repeat all that here, as I simply don't have the time.
      But for example, people who commute into Toronto to work, their opinion matters as to how the roads are. That doesn't affect the people who already live in Toronto. Most of the people who own businesses in Toronto do not necessarily live in Toronto. I've had a few employers who were like that. Not the mention the people who work and perform services in Toronto, and need to get around. It matters to them whether bike lanes are etched into the main roads causing gridlock.
      All of the examples I have given are dependent on the mayor voted in and the mandate he represents. Overall, if it's friendly towards people who live outside of Toronto, expect more people to come to the city, businesses to grow, and more revenue generated. If the overall mandate us negative towards outsiders coming in, expect a reverse trend.

      Toronto is essentially a hub Peter. And whether you like it or not, the opinions of those who live outside the city are worth a lot. It would be unwise to think otherwise.
    8. dama posted on 01/22/2014 06:57 PM
      @Karl Burgin Well said Karl.. and you are creating problem in here again !!!!

      Sometimes,, "outside looking in" provides a better take on people "living in" and blind to the situation;also one does not have tobe IN to formulate a good point of view.. politic is politic and a city hall in Toronto is no difference than a city hall in Brampton or Mississauga. most councillors over spent the tax payers money of their expense account.. and then some....

      Maybe Toronto councillors should have some balls and increase Toronto's property tax to true market valuation then they dont have to increase the tax to more than 3%..

      How about it? Torontonian agree?? I bet not...and this is coming from someone not LIVING IN to give you a fair opinion..
      .
    9. REALITY BITES posted on 01/22/2014 07:15 PM
      @Karl Burgin Your first "example" would seem to make some sense except for the fact it they came from a guy whose "commute" is between his basement and the closest Best Buy for some more computer parts.

      But, as your comments usually go, these actually almost make a salient point or two. Congrats.
    10. Karl Burgin posted on 01/22/2014 08:20 PM
      @REALITY BITES Spoken like a true a-hole.
    11. REALITY BITES posted on 01/23/2014 06:29 AM
      @Karl Burgin There you go ... NOT responding to me as promised (AGAIN) !!

      You're just too much fun, twenty-something computer tech boy.
    12. donny p. posted on 01/23/2014 07:43 AM
      @Karl Burgin You truly are full of crap, until you live here you have no idea what we go through and your opinions are worthless, less than worthless because you're ignorant of what the Ford administration has done to Toronto residents. As Peter so well stated, your ignorant comments are based in ideology, not experience.

      So, speaking for all Toronto residents, we thank you for getting your ass out of here, don't come back until you walk the talk.

      We don't appreciate ignorant assholes who think they know better than us yet don't have a clue of what us homeowners are going through in Toronto. Ford is an asshole, as are you.
    13. Karl Burgin posted on 01/23/2014 09:18 AM
      @donny p. OK....This response is to all you, Mr. Reality, and unfortunately Peter, who I believe to be rather new here:
      Pardon my French, but the hell are you to determine if my beliefs are from ideology. My beliefs are from experience- since I spent most of my hours, up until the middle of last year working in the downtown core. I delivered onsite IT services to people under the last few years of Millers, and a bit over a couple of years into Ford's term.
      I had to drive those roads going from site to site, especially during rush hour. I was stuck in traffic with bike lanes in place. I took subways, and the TTC where I could. I spent from 7 am in the morning till sometimes 9 p.m. at night working downtown. So at most, that would be as equal amount of time spent downtown, as I did living in the suburbs.

      You all are the ignorant assholes (save Peter). The people that commute downtown to work are a major part of the revenue stream that funds your city. Without us, you would not be as big as you are. I felt some of the changes Ford implemented when he came in. The removal of some of the bike lanes were the biggest relief. Because it meant shorter travel time, less billable time charged to customers, which meant more satisfied customers overall.
      My reasons for leaving the work environment downtown is personal, and I will not delve into that. But as for my opinions, they solidly come from experience- not some sort of ideology.

      Although, I can probably accuse you of the same thing. Because all of you, when you respond to my comments, sometimes the language is VERY similar, the insults are degrading but pretty much the same, and you all seem to arrive at the same talking point. And this is an excellent example of that- all of you coming together (more like ganging up) to say that my opinions do not count because I don't live in the city.


      But let's take it from another angle, that would destroy your premise. You say that outsiders' opinions don't count. But yet you take seriously the opinions of those that believe that Ford is an embarrassment, or you keep being asked 'how is that crack mayor doing?'. Or when the late night circuit uses Toronto as a punching bag because of the Ford coverage, you are all wringing your hands in panic. So which is it?
      Is it that the outside opinion of others only count, when it supports your premise- or should it be the same throughout?

      Be careful when you answer- wouldn't want you all to cause self-injury trying to respond to that one without being guilty of promoting yet anjother double-standard.
    14. donny p. posted on 01/23/2014 09:49 AM
      @Karl Burgin No one's got time to read all that crap...just go away, come back when you live and vote here. Stop trying to rationalize your ignorant posts, you make people that pay taxes in Toronto want to puke.
    15. Karl Burgin posted on 01/23/2014 10:05 AM
      @donny p. Which goes to show, you are nothing. Back to your base ideology I see. All you got is "come back when you live and vote here". Geez....buy a new line, or a vowel.
      Be careful where you puke-wouldn't want you to make a mess on your keyboard.
  4. john posted on 01/22/2014 03:37 PM
    make a list of all these people who will vote for it and not vote for them in the next elections . that what i am going to do .
    1. donny p. posted on 01/22/2014 04:20 PM
      @john How do you get to vote in every riding? You must be very stupid to post that thought.
    2. Angry Bill posted on 01/22/2014 04:44 PM
      @donny p. Not Rob or Doug Ford's riding. They'd vote for it. You must be very stupid to not post that thought.
    3. dama posted on 01/22/2014 07:07 PM
      @donny p. You dont vote in every riding, like in the US, propose it as a Bill
      and if the 3% tax is Bill3% and if you want that increase you vote for that Bill in the election just like a referandum..
    4. john posted on 01/24/2014 12:05 PM
      @dama i have rental property on all ridings dumbass .
    5. dama posted on 01/27/2014 02:52 PM
      @john You are that stupid? even if you own all the houses in every ridings, you only get ONE vote... stupid arse..
    6. john posted on 01/27/2014 03:04 PM
      @dama i said i have rental property in all ridings that i rent out . when somone says i have rental property thay are talking about that OWEN property and rents them out on those ridings .
  5. JC posted on 01/22/2014 04:50 PM
    cancel the Scarb subway immediately as a starter. we don't need Rob Fords tax hikes
    1. dama posted on 01/22/2014 07:02 PM
      @JC How could this 3% be Rob Ford;s tax? Where have you been? In a cave?

      Rob Ford wanted 1.75% and that includes the .25 for the Scarboro subway.. its the councillors that you should be shouting at.. and Denzil Minnan Wong.
    2. REALITY BITES posted on 01/22/2014 07:09 PM
      @dama You can believe your own comment if you want, but, keep in mind that you're working with "Rob Ford math" - that is figures from the same liar who says he's saved the taxpayers a billion dollars !
    3. JC posted on 01/22/2014 09:00 PM
      @dama Rob Ford would be the last person i trust with math on anything.
      Whatever happened to private money people were knocking his door down to give him? I know he fooled many. they should look in the mirror next time. I blame him, i blame Stintz all playing politics for votes.
      The good thing is it's never going to get built. you just feel it. too many elections cycles to go. the pressure of coming elections will pass, you won't have to pander for votes. environmental assessments and studies to do. years and years away before a shovel in the ground.
      you think this past storm is the last?
      have we not learned from Sheppard. you can shoot off a cannon non rush hours.
      TTC mentioned the St. Clair right of way streetcar carries more riders than Sheppard daily and its not even an LRT train.
      Scarb is not downtown, never will be
    4. donny p. posted on 01/23/2014 07:46 AM
      @dama This is a 100% Ford tax, if he had raised taxes a little bit over the last two years, we could probably do with a 1% increase. Also, the subway taxes are 100% Ford, the LRT was 100% funded by the province, now the city has to pay >$100 million just to get out of that deal.

      Ford is costing us millions...
    5. dama posted on 01/23/2014 03:05 PM
      @REALITY BITES That billion dollars saving MATH came from the city manager and that is what Rob Ford quoted.. so you are saying that the City manager lied.. in his billion dollar figure..

      and also.. Rob Ford ONLY has ONE vote.. so why would Karen Stinz(there is another councillor that recanted) changed her mind and open up the subway debate in council when the LRT was already proposed and passed?

      If you want to put blame.. put it on Karen Stinz even with the tax % increase. Rob Ford has only ONE vote..

      Cant put every blame on that fat one always.. Ford haters !!!
      you can hate him for his own self desctrustions but not on these raxes.. remember ONE vote..
    6. REALITY BITES posted on 01/24/2014 09:43 AM
      @dama 1. You hit the nail on the (fat)head. He has only one vote but he continually states that HE saved the taxpayers a billion dollars.

      2. The city manager had since revised that figure to under 285 million - a figure that does not take into account the tax increase necessary for 20 years to cover the multi-billion dollar waste of the Scarborough 3 stop "subway-to-nowhere"... and doesn't the estimated hundreds of millions necessary to deal with the Gardiner.

      Try to keep up if you can.
      Rob Thug hasn't saved anything - he has, in fact, mortgaged Torontonians for at least 20 years.
    7. Karl Burgin posted on 01/24/2014 11:48 AM
      @REALITY BITES And yet when Conrad Black went over the numbers, it was closer to $660 million. As John Moore said, it all depends on how you look at the numbers.

      As for the subway, I distinctly remember hearing Flahrety saying that if Toronto required more money for the subway, that the feds would pitch in with more funds. But then again, it was Ford alone who able to get money from the feds in the first place- not Ms. Wynne, nor city council.

      Try to keep up if you can. Ford more years.
    8. dama posted on 01/24/2014 02:32 PM
      @Karl Burgin Right on,, Rob Ford the ONLY mayor able t get money from the Fed and even it is 283 million is still money saved by Rob Ford

      Look at Miller's years on tax %.. it amounts to more than 3 % average compared to Rob Ford less than 2% average except for te latest tax increase of 2.25 and now looking at 3%

      Eventually Rob Ford is the guy that would be able to put a "shovel" in the ground for subway even tough it might take 20 years to pay for it considering that this subway debate started 20 years ago and yet nothing happened

      That will be Rob Ford's legacy if the subway is built..

      Ford More Years..
    9. Karl Burgin posted on 01/24/2014 02:49 PM
      @dama ...and which further begs the point- how did we get subways to begin with? I understand they were built during the late 50's, early 60's. But according to the argument against building the Scarborough line, the population isn't sufficient enough to warrant such a project. Well wasn't that the same when they started building subways in Toronto- the population wasn't sufficient enough? Fortunately, the politicians back then had vision- practical vision. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't cheap for them to fund as well. Yes, one may argue materials were cheaper then, but it was still expensive. And before I hear a buffoon remark about that comment, I read that fact from a couple of engineers in an article that actually worked on building the subway. They also said, that they should have kept building when it was cheaper and more viable to do so. And that would have helped prevent the traffic mess, and the consequential money wasted due to lack of productiveness.

      If the city council back then had the same mentality like the council today, I can assure you that Toronto would not be the largest city in Canada.

      But heck, what do I know- seeing I don't live in Toronto...
  6. fran posted on 01/22/2014 10:29 PM
    this wong wong thinks city hall is his home
    1. Karl Burgin posted on 01/23/2014 09:26 AM
      @fran I am repeating this posting to the likes of Mr. Reality. Donny P***y, and Peter. I'm posting this here for all to see, because frankly, I'm really getting sick and tired of the premise that my opinions on Ford, or Toronto do not count because I do not live in the city. And that I'm not game enough to stand up to their posting. This is the latest talking point that seems to be permeating their small brains.
      ******************************************************************************

      Pardon my French, but who the hell are you to determine if my beliefs are from ideology. My beliefs are from experience- since I spent most of my hours, up until the middle of last year working in the downtown core. I delivered onsite IT services to professionals under the last few years of Millers, and a bit over a couple of years into Ford's term.
      I had to drive those roads going from site to site, especially during rush hour. I was stuck in traffic with bike lanes in place. I took subways, and the TTC where I could. I spent from 7 am in the morning till sometimes 9 p.m. at night working downtown. So at most, that would be as equal amount of time spent working downtown, as I did living in the suburbs.

      You all are the ignorant assholes (save Peter- for now). The people that commute downtown to work are a major part of the revenue stream that funds your city. Without us, you would not be as big as you are. I felt some of the changes Ford implemented when he came in. The removal of some of the bike lanes were the biggest relief. Because it meant shorter travel time, less billable/travel time charged to customers, which meant more satisfied customers overall.
      My reasons for leaving the work environment downtown are personal, and I will not delve into that. But as for my opinions, they solidly come from experience- not some sort of ideology.

      Although, I can probably accuse you of the same thing. Because all of you, when you respond to my comments, sometimes the language is VERY similar, the insults are degrading but pretty much the same, and you all seem to arrive at the same talking point. And this is an excellent example of that- all of you coming together (more like ganging up) to say that my opinions do not count because I don't live in the city.


      But let's take it from another angle, that would destroy your premise. You say that outsiders' opinions don't count. But yet you take seriously the opinions of those that believe that Ford is an embarrassment, or you keep being asked 'how is that crack mayor doing?'. Or when the late night circuit uses Toronto as a punching bag because of the Ford coverage, you are all wringing your hands in panic. So which is it?
      Is it that the outside opinion of others only count, when it supports your premise- or should it be the same throughout?

      Be careful when you answer- wouldn't want you all to cause self-injury trying to respond to that one without being guilty of promoting yet another double-standard.
      Also, if you answer and you continue being a dick, don't expect me to answer. My time is precious to me, and I neither have the energy, or the patience entertaining a company of fools.
    2. REALITY BITES posted on 01/23/2014 12:28 PM
      @Karl Burgin I won't speak for the others you have been railing against ... just for myself.

      I have NEVER said your opinion doesn't count because you are an "outsider".
      I have OFTEN stated that your opinion doesn't count because you rarely, if ever, make sense with your lengthy diatribes.

      Further, I wouldn't compliment you by saying your opinions come from your ideology. Having an ideology would indicate a modicum of rational and, hopefully, coherent thought.

      You have neither.

      You are merely a self-absorbed under-achieving troll.
    3. 123123 posted on 01/23/2014 12:46 PM
      @Karl Burgin They've only removed a handful of bike lanes and thousands of cars have since been added to the road. They've also added bike lanes elsewhere. So Ford's removing of those bike lanes if it made any initial dent will have been so minuscule (less than a minute per driver) its hardly worth mentioning. What is worth mentioning is that it cost $300,000 to remove the Jarvis bike lane. Thats money that could have gone towards something that could have made a more substantive improvement.
    4. Karl Burgin posted on 01/23/2014 01:03 PM
      @REALITY BITES You say tomato, I say tom-a-to. There is no difference, as it all boils down to the same thing.
      Happy trolling.
    5. Karl Burgin posted on 01/23/2014 01:06 PM
      @123123 As to your Jarvis bike lane point....it should never have gone there to begin with. So I actually applaud Ford for removing at. As someone who had no choice but to take it sometimes during the day, it was a relief.
      The $300,000 cost to remove it should have went towards David Miller's tab.
    6. REALITY BITES posted on 01/23/2014 01:46 PM
      @Karl Burgin Yet another disjointed non-sequitur of a deflection from the "Master of Delusion". Thanks for proving BOTH of my points again !

      You really are way too much fun !!
    7. Karl Burgin posted on 01/24/2014 11:40 AM
      @REALITY BITES Did your mother help you come up with such big words....good for you.
  7. john posted on 01/24/2014 12:31 PM
    lets get this sr8 for all u misguided fools out there .

    1th ford dos not agree with the increase in tax .

    2nd he has no powers anymore cause thay illegally striped him of his power . so he cant stop the process . if he could he would . raising taxes is not way to run a big city with 2 million people .

    3rd the liberal government owes us over 1 billion . for the gas plaint scandal .
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