JERRY AGAR

Bike/Car accidents. Whose fault?

Posted By: Jerry Agar · 6/19/2012 8:15:00 AM

Who is at fault, statistically, when there is an accident between a car and a bicycle?

Depends who you ask. If you pick and choose between the studies, you can make it seem as if it is always the car.

Here is a report on various studies.

Everyone in traffic has an obligation to protect the safety of thers and not just themselves, but if anyone thinks I am wrong in my assertion that bicycle riders in Toronto are not - in huge numbers - aggressively running red lights, popping on and off sidewalks and riding the wrong way down one way streets, I invite them to stand for a time on a busy corner and keep their eyes open.

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  1. MichaelP posted on 06/19/2012 08:53 AM
    Anyone who drives downtown can tell you that the vast majority of bike riders view traffic laws as nothing more than suggestions. It's to a point where I, as a driver, have to assume that anyone on a bike is going right through any stop sign that we might both be approaching. When a cyclist does stop i am honestly surprised and give him/her a thumbs up. I feel really bad for these cyclists who actually follow the laws as they get lumped in with the lawbreakers. Some cyclists are great, most are terrible.

    Not that drivers are all that fantastic either, the number of drivers who don't signal lane changes is embarrassing is shameful for instance. But compared to the average cyclist, I'd say the average drive is much better as far as following laws. And there is one reason for this, enforcement. All we need to do is setup a small group of cops who hand out tickets to cyclists for violations and it would be more than enough to pay for their salaries 5 times over and over time the problem will greatly reduce. But if you don't enforce the law then the law is meaningless.
    1. Dm posted on 06/19/2012 01:28 PM
      @MichaelP You just said it. "Not that drivers are all that fantastic..."

      Why then the anger towards cyclists who break the rules. It baffles me honestly. I dislike it too when I cyclist rides through a light when I am waiting. But for every one person doing this, there are 10-12 others waiting. Really. Spend some time out there. Get on a bike.

      Just hope you don't get hit by a car running a red light. Cause this happens,

      often!!
  2. Michele posted on 06/19/2012 10:50 AM
    I am a transit driver and believe me when I tell you that cyclists are usually at fault as they have no regard for the law. In the many years that I have driven transit vehicles, I have only come across 1 cyclist who actually observed road rules. Infact some of them have even had the audacity to write in to transit and accuse us drivers of being aggressive and hostile, inspite of us being the people who have to watch out as we are considered professional drivers and hence even if we are not at fault, any accident is considered to be Preventable on our part. Further more, cyclists are looked at positively by the management of most major cities as they are seen as protecting the environment.
    1. john posted on 06/28/2012 12:58 PM
      @Michele I agree, infact the helmet's only a band aid solution. All cyclists need to be sent to traffic school, just like drivers and be licensed and insured.
  3. Richard Collins posted on 06/19/2012 11:11 AM
    No word of a lie, this past Sunday afternoon I saw a man ride a unicycle north in the southbound lane of Yonge street between Dundas and College. There's definitely a culture of ignoring the rules of the road with Toronto cyclists.
  4. proton posted on 06/19/2012 11:26 AM
    As a driver, cyclist and pedestrian I've observed there isn't a simple solution.

    When cycling and getting up to speed it becomes very frustrating to continually have to stop then start up again at stop signs, especially when they're a block apart, red lights, etc. A lot of cyclists do this when they see no traffic requirement to stop. This is not intended as an excuse, simply the reality of cycling. Many drivers are also courteous enough to recognize this and will allow the cyclists through even though they have the priority at the intersection.

    Politicians keep touting cycling in European countries. One thing they ignore is the general lack of stop signs in those countries (roundabouts and yield signs are the norm) which is far more cyclist and car friendly.

    Many cyclists are unaware of the turn radius of trucks, a deadly ignorance.

    Drivers are notorious for driving too close to cyclists as they pass. When I educated a motorist about having just done that their answer was that it was either that or come to close to the car in the next lane. I guess their car was more important than risking injuring a cyclist. A minimum 1 meter distance (a good NY state law) is an excellent idea.

    Then there's the issue of motorists seeing and not mentally processing cyclists (and pedestrians) particularly on left turns. They see the cyclist yet it's so small compared to their vehicle they don't perceive the danger in order to yield. There have been studies done on this issue.

    Toronto pedestrians are amongst the most dangerous I've ever seen anywhere. They routinely walk onto the road treating it as a giant pedestrian crossing. Unfortunately the motorists and cyclists are automatically charged even if not at fault.

    To summarize, the best form of driver training should include cycling and walking with traffic around in order to better understand what's on the road. Ditto for cyclists. As for pedestrians, regular ticketing blitzes and education might help curb this dangerous Toronto habit.
  5. SteveB_10 posted on 06/19/2012 12:06 PM
    Another lesson in Jerrylogic. Guns bad fathers, Bikes bad bikers, subways bad spending, UN admonishes Canada, ban the UN.. The solution is to find a real solution not wishing for a return of unicorns.
    Dedicated bike lanes are the answer. In European city no one wears a helmet and all trucks have barriers. Jerry why do cars have bumpers, why is there standards to protect pedestrians from frontal impacts, all stupid things in Jerry's world, but real solutions in the real world.
    1. Dm posted on 06/19/2012 01:33 PM
      @SteveB_10 There is not logic, or rational, to many of Jerry's arguments. He comes at most topics with anger and ignorance.
      Instead of all of this blame towards cyclists, when m any drivers are just as much, or more, at fault, why do we not come together to solve the problem.
      Let's make it safer for more people to ride.

      Simple enough no.
      Well, in the mind of anyone who is somewhat sensical at least.
    2. levon posted on 06/21/2012 10:47 AM
      @SteveB_10 Ever notiice Agar is pretty well wrong on pretty well all issues? He slithers up here from the US and tells us how terrible our healthcare system is and that we are all socialists and our government runs like a communist country. But at the same time gleefully walking his American family up to the healthcare trough. Pls don't renew this guys contract. I'm sure they can find a better conservative host.
  6. Rob Thomas posted on 06/19/2012 12:21 PM
    I heard your argument with John Moore this morning and I can only say this: My car insurance keeps going up because of the idiots that cannot or will not drive properly according to law.
    We need the cyclists to start taking some responsibility for their actions, and yes, the majority of cyclists will end up spending more money to follow the laws.
    If you are a cyclist riding next to a big truck, take responsibility and stop to let the truck pass before you move on.
    Safety first!
    Should we start having cyclists pay insurance to ride their bicycles on city streets?
    1. m posted on 06/20/2012 06:32 PM
      @Rob Thomas Yes we most certainly should!
  7. proton posted on 06/19/2012 12:54 PM
    there's also no balance in infraction costs. no bell on your bike - $ 100 ticket. motorist fails to yield at a stop sign or making an illegal u-turn, hits a cyclist almost killing them, also $ 100.

    if we want to promote cycling we need to look at the bigger picture, not just bandaid solutions. education for everyone using the roads will do more to reduce accidents and fatalities than anything else
    1. john posted on 06/28/2012 12:56 PM
      @proton I agree, infact the helmet's only a band aid solution. All cyclists need to be sent to traffic school, just like drivers and be licensed.
  8. ArtC posted on 06/19/2012 01:55 PM
    i have a bike and a car. when i ride my bike i try to be considerate to car traffic and follow the rules when i drive i try to do likewise. simple!
    but the problem is humans are not simple. they are selfish for the most part.
    i ride my bike along queensquay all the time. why do cars not follow the rules and feel like they can do what they want and park on the bike lane to run errands and endanger cyclists who have to go around their cars. i don't leave my bike in car lanes to go run errands..
  9. JoeC_6015 posted on 06/19/2012 03:04 PM
    Downtown cyclists generally do not obey traffic laws, because they don't have to. They are not accountable, they can't be identified by a license plate, they do not have to have ID to ride a bike. If they perceive that your vehicle has come too close to them, they can kick in your fender and ride away - I've seen it. What are you doing to do, chase them and hold them down? They feel empowered.
    1. john posted on 06/28/2012 12:55 PM
      @JoeC_6015 I agree, infact the helmet debate is only a band aid solution. All cyclists need to be sent to traffic school, just like drivers and be licensed.
  10. Raj posted on 06/19/2012 03:48 PM
    Listening to Jerry, I sometimes forget if I have tuned in to AM1010 or to a certain Floridian windbag. Take his attempt to blame Rodney King for LA riots yesterday...not a word against the brutal beating he got despite providing no resistance or the fact that the cops got off scot free...he was trying to equate that incidence with acquittal of OJ...a typical KKK tactic of blaming the victim for wrongdoing and when confronted, dig something against the aggrived party. Jerry...some things are just wrong and there is no moral equivalence for them.
  11. RandyM posted on 06/19/2012 08:25 PM
    My feelings are that both auto drivers and bike riders need to slow down and be cosiderate of each other. I bike ride and also drive and I don't think that either car or bike drivers, as a whole deserve a prize for great drivers. Bikers have to realize that they will be the loser if hit by a vehicle. One thing that bothers me when I ride a bike on the street is cars that do not move to the left lane when passing. They wouldn't think anything of doing that if passing a car. As far as bikes going through red lights, I am sure that more auto drivers do this than anyone. I have occasionly gone through a light that has turned yellow, and watched in my mirror as cars go through the lights probably a good 10 to 15 carlengths behind me. Wow! And the worst thing about bikers is that they want be pedestrians and drivers. You cannot be both so obey the rules of the road as any driver should. Your life may depend on it!
    1. Matt posted on 06/22/2012 10:32 PM
      @RandyM Stopsigns, not red lights. Cyclists dont stop at stopsigns, ever. Not a debate.
  12. Andrew posted on 06/20/2012 09:30 AM
    The road is shared by cyclists and motorists. Let's look at Holland and Denmark for cyclist and cars coexisting. Roads are not designed in canada to accomodate a car and a cyclist in the same lane. I was a victim of a bad cycling accident in Halton being hit from behind by a car driving at 70 KM/H. Had the lane been wider would the car have driven by? Cars should treat the cyclist as another vehicle and cyclists should be cognisant that if they hold up traffic to pull over and let the cars by if they cannot pass safely i.e no passing lane or double line. But in order to be recognised as another vehicle the cyclist must act like one as well. Re the helmet issue: Without my helmet I would be dead. Instead I broke by back and sternum. I am in favour of mandating helmets. Too often I see kids without helmets.
  13. Jim posted on 06/21/2012 02:31 AM
    There are all kinds of cyclists and all kind of motorists. One of my friends spent two months with a cast on her leg because an idiot in a stopped car opened his car door just when she was going past. Just yesterday, a pedestrian, jumped in front of a bicycle when the light was green - she in fact, negotiated that cyclist and then caused the cars to come to a screeching stop as well (I am sure she was under the influence at 9am). Many cyclists and motor-cyclists consider the space between adjacent cars a valid passing zone...and it is true that, when I am walking, I am more worried about the cyclists than cars on a traffic light. All in all, there is a culture of entitlement in this city which is engendered by lax enforcement of existing laws. Back to the point of it all - a helmet should be made mandatory - otherwise some dolts will never wear it - but helmet alone will never make everyone be considerate while on road.
  14. Momtomany posted on 06/22/2012 07:27 AM
    I once had an altercation with a bicycle while driving my car. I was told by the police man that the car is always at fault, since a bike is at such a disadvantage. A driver then has to prove his innocence and that proving the guilt of the bike alone isn't enough.
    This is all despite the fact that the damage was on the side of my car, and the bike claimed that I hit them. .... physically not possible! I was innocent in the end.

    I think cyclists should wear helmets, no matter their age, and there should be a license system of a sort. They should be ticketed for going through red lights and not stopping/obviously slowing down for stop signs.

    If we are going to share the road, then everyone needs to abide by the laws or it doesn't work.
    1. Matt posted on 06/22/2012 10:36 PM
      @Momtomany Banning bikes is the only solution. Anyone who rides a bike has to take ttc at the earliest opportunity to do so. Also, they may only eat veggie burgers.
    2. john posted on 06/28/2012 12:59 PM
      @Momtomany I agree, infact the helmet's only a band aid solution. All cyclists need to be sent to traffic school, just like drivers and be licensed and get insurance to ride.
  15. john posted on 06/28/2012 12:44 PM
    My two cents...enforce licensing for cyclists (so they know traffic laws) the same as motor cyclists & drivers. Great income for the government too, to build dedicated bike lanes (where necessary). Enforce traffic laws for all, making it much more safer for everyone.
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