JERRY AGAR

Teachers and democracy

Posted By: Jerry Agar · 8/23/2012 12:06:00 PM

At a press conference supporting teachers in their ongoing fight - it is now a fight - with the province Sam Hammond, President of the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario (ETFO), made the claim that the province is undemocratic in their dealings.

If the unions are so interested in democracy, I have a couple of suggestions.

1. Allow members to belong to the union on a voluntary basis, with the ability to come and go as they wish. If the union can attract 100% membership, good for them. If not, abandonment of the union by large numbers of people would in the end make the union better. They would change and adapt as their members wish, not as their leadership wishes. If they knew on their hearts that they had a great product, they would embrace this kind of democracy.

2. Allow education vouchers, which is real school choice. Vouchers involve having the money alloted to each student follow the student to whatever public or private institution the family chooses. That is democracy, in a system where the people own the system, not he union or the government.

And if the union really cared a whit about democracy, they would realize that their actions on behalf of the Liberals helped put McGuinty in charge in this province, so they got the leadership they wanted.

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  1. StephenS_5505 posted on 08/23/2012 01:37 PM
    2. Allow education vouchers, which is real school choice. Vouchers involve having the money alloted to each student follow the student to whatever public or private institution the family chooses. That is democracy, in a system where the people own the system, not he union or the government

    As long as the money allocated to each student is the same dollar amount to create a level playing field, because if it is not then we start down the round to seperate but equal.
  2. Richard Collins posted on 08/23/2012 03:41 PM
    Well said, Mr Agar! If they cared as much about democracy as they claimed, they'd consult the taxpayers who are, ultimately, their employers. As always, this is nothing but crooked union thugs throwing up smoke to try and distract us while they snake their fingers into our wallets.
  3. SteveB_10 posted on 08/23/2012 04:03 PM
    Having a union where membership is voluntary is like having a military draft where you can opt out. Now the US did have a system like that, and it is the same people known as chicken hawks, and in our country I dont know if Tom Flanagan is a draft dodger but he sound like one. It is these people that use the rhetorical trick of a voucher to solve every problem. Well what happens when the cost exceeds the voucher, oh to bad!
  4. AntonDutta posted on 08/24/2012 05:08 AM
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    1. Jack posted on 08/24/2012 08:09 AM
      @AntonDutta That's a cool story, man.
  5. mike posted on 08/27/2012 08:05 AM
    Dave Footes Boom Bust and Echoe William Gairdners ,,Trouble with Canada, and the War against the Family, (Mr Agar read them ) clearly put the future of education in its place . THERE is no groth in schools the echoe kids of boomers are done school and there is nothing following behind,
    Another thing have a look at how many reired school teachers sit on school boards do wonder the unions wants to neg. with school boards, and managment is all Teachers,,, is that not a confict of interest.
    Get rid of JK, we cant afford it ...
    i agree give us vouchers to choose our schools NOW
    Does the Premier not have a conflist of interest with his wife being a teacher?
    1. Wayne posted on 08/27/2012 10:16 PM
      @mike Jerry, nows yore chance to get an interview with Dalton!
  6. proton posted on 08/28/2012 07:32 AM
    another major problem with unions; pay scale/bonus is all based on seniority and has ZERO to do with performance. A fantastic teacher that is worth their weight in gold is paid the same as a teacher that's lousy, has no interest in teaching, never lifts a finger to do more than their contract requires.

    and good luck trying to get rid of those lousy teachers
    1. Richard Collins posted on 08/28/2012 06:37 PM
      @proton Which is one of the main reasons why unions need to get out of our country.
  7. Journey888 posted on 08/28/2012 11:06 AM
    Richard Collins - are you silly enough to imply that teachers are not taxpayers? Get over yourself, teachers pay taxes too! Most importantly, teachers are PEOPLE, who have families and obligations.
  8. danny posted on 08/28/2012 11:13 AM
    I listen to your comments. I think your comment:

    2. Allow education vouchers, which is real school choice. Vouchers involve having the money alloted to each student follow the student to whatever public or private institution the family chooses. That is democracy, in a system where the people own the system, not he union or the government.

    IS the one of the smartest thing I heard. If John Tory had used this in his campaign I think things might be different today.

    privatization or 2 tier systems seem to be the way to go.

    The teachers kill me. DO you know how many teachers I know who own:
    - cottage
    - boats
    - complain about their workload
    - have a wage increase every year

    I dont have any of the above but I do have a better job then them so I am not jealous. I just think they should now join the new century.

    At a time of fiscal responsibility it is time teachers AND unions join the rest of us trying to get the economy back on track instead of whining about their really "tough" life.
    Thanks Gerry. I dont think you are angry. I think its about time someone voiced what we are thinking but dont have the damn time (becase we are trying to survive economically) to complain.

    listner danny
    1. MichaelP posted on 08/28/2012 01:01 PM
      @danny Who cares how many teachers that you know that own cottages and boats? If they agreed to the current offer (and memo to those who can't read, some of the unions already did weeks ago) would they no longer own a boat or a cottage?

      And his name is Jerry.

      This issue has to do with a couple of union leaders fighting a personal battle against a couple of politicians. Most teachers are at work today, and were yesterday and will be tomorrow. If you freeze their pay they'd still be there, and if you cut their pay they'd still be there. At the end of the day teachers make exactly what the government says they'll make and not a penny more. It's always been this way.
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  9. kenfromcanada posted on 08/30/2012 09:35 AM
    Human nature.

    I have had 2 major careers - both in the private sector - both necessitating much inter-action with the public sector. My 2 cents worth:

    The younger people I dealt with for the most part were caring, enthusiastic, and had that great Canadian work ethic.

    It didn't take long for most of them to realize - 'Hey, I have a government job. This idiot in front of me - won't affect me keeping this job. Why bust my ass for him.'

    It took even less time for me not to be able to find the same person to help me without a long and frustrating wait.

    Human nature - put people in positions where they are not really so answerable - specially to us, the public - and watch them become the full of themselves, self important and feeling ENTITLED to my (part of) hard earned TAX DOLLARS!!!!!
  10. proton posted on 08/30/2012 10:06 AM
    @kenfromcanada

    Well said! Human nature requires incentive to perform; that's why communism is a failure and socialism can only putter along. We need FISCAL conservatism to get our public house in order.
    1. MichaelP posted on 08/30/2012 09:38 PM
      @proton sadly no political parties currently offer actual fiscal conservatism.
  11. SteveJ_2 posted on 08/31/2012 11:37 AM
    There should be no unions where taxpayer dollars are involved. We all know that politicians like McGuinty are never interested in the taxpayers, only their dollars, and have absolutely no guts when any pressure is applied by the unions for increases in salaries and benefits...it's always about votes .
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