Really, it's the only way we can move forward as a country. As others have pointed out, as long as the unions can hold vital services like garbage collection and education hostage, and say "Give us what we want or we hurt people," it's not negotiation, just extortion.

The right to organize in unions and the right for those unions to strike is fast approaching the old and thankfully abolished right for Southern landowners to own slaves; it hurts more people than it benefits, and those few who it benefits will fight like rabid dogs to protect it because they simply don't care.

I say we go this way, then we can pay teachers what we can afford on a district to district basis. So up north, because the tax base so so low, well you make less, down south, where there are more people and hence more competition, you can pay less, basic supply and demand economics.

In this way we can all pay less taxes and still a really inferior education, much like the public system in the states where some teachers make 30 grand a year.

Now that we accomplished this we can move on to create a private education system so only the well off can afford a decent education for their kids.

Count me in Jerry.

Jerry makes a great point in suggesting public unions be abolished. The European model functions more like our insurance system, where as an employee you might be requested/required to join a union if you feel well served by them, but you choose which one is best matched to your needs. Result? individuals are well served as they feel, no one's rights are trampled, and the paying public is not held hostage by one agenda. Win-Win Thinking, right there.

On and on about the teachers but narry a word ever about the Police or Fire. Apparently they can get everything they want year after year including gold plated pensions that Jerry constantly droans on about, but their ok.

Everyone gets treated equal, no cop or FF union either then, right to hire exists all places or no places.

Besides being mis-informed Jerry, U also appear to be a person who does not support Human Rights and Free Speech (even though you more than many others seem to enjoy excercising this freedom). The reason Unions began was because workers were being exploited, but for someone who only works 3 hours a day, while we put in 8-12 hours just to put food on the table, it is not something that is hard to understand, but something that they do not wish to understand. That is sooo typical of people who are not first generation immigrants. It is sad that people like you, Tim Hudak and Rob Ford want to do away with Unions to try to save money, but will endorse a by election in order to give a man who blatantly violated the law, a second chance. I guess you are the kind of people who indirectly support corruption, because that is what spending $7-15 mioolion on a byelection amounts to. Wast the tax payers money in this way and pretend to help wave by out-sourcing etc, which is exactly how companies like Bell (who are trying to buy Astral) sho profits. How come you and your co-hosts never discuss this very greedy practice that Bell engages in?

Grumpy’s Pissed Again: Jerry Agar has got it all wrong!

This week when commenting about the current conflict in education, Jerry Agar, (Sun Media, CFRB Radio) said that education/government is not like private business or manufacturing because it doesn’t produce anything. He said because there are no profits, unions shouldn’t be required by teachers because people in education are “being paid with taxpayer’s money”.

Basically he was saying education is not producing profits, so there are no earned financial resources to share. Today he went on to say schools should be run like a business by business managers. I shudder to think what that would be like.
Here’s what a pissed off Grumpy has to say about that.

AN OPEN LETTER TO DAVE AGAR

Well, Mr. Agar, I beg to differ with your view that education does not produce anything. Education produces tremendous profits: profits we all benefit from.
Mr. Agar, education is a very profitable endeavor.

It produces free thinking citizens who have learned to distinguish between bovine excrement and the truth. It produces citizens that can read, write, calculate and participate in and work for the greater good of society. It produces our doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers and talk show hosts. And for your information, it produces people who are employable and who pay the taxes from which we all reap benefits.

As William Haloupek suggests, “Education raises our social consciousness. It makes life more meaningful. It makes better citizens. It’s an investment in our future that is repaid many times over. It repays all of us–not just the ones who get the diplomas.”

The State of Arizona, in a report on higher education concluded that, “Educated workers make a net positive contribution to government budgets, and they help to raise the wages of all workers in an area.”

Milton Friedman's position on the role of government in schooling:

"A stable and democratic society is impossible without widespread acceptance of some common set of values and without a minimum degree of literacy and knowledge on the part of most citizens. Education contributes to both. In consequence, the gain from the education of a child accrues not only to the child or to his parents but to other members of the society; the education of my child contributes to other people's welfare by promoting a stable and democratic society." (Friedman, 1955)

W. Craig Riddell, Department of Economics, University of British Columbia writes that “the value of the social benefits of education appears to be similar in size to the private market returns to education from higher lifetime earnings. Thus the benefits of education are considerable, and any decisions regarding public support for education should take these social and non-market benefits into account.”
http://www.utoronto.ca/president/04conference/downloads/Riddell.pdf

I guess you are unaware that the 190 000 teachers in Ontario pay one hell of a lot of those Ontario taxes. I’d say more than their fair share. That’s because most hold two or more degrees, have taken additional qualification courses, and have worked their way up through a grid taking as many as 12 years to get where they are financially. My wife paid $14 000 in income tax last year. Multiply that times 190 000 teachers and that’s a $2 600 000 000 (2.6 BILLION) discout off the published cost of education.

Why?

Because, teachers are paid with tax dollars, and they return a good portion of those very same tax dollars back into the coffers of the Province of Ontario.

Mr. Agar, Education is a key that allows people to move up in the world, seek better jobs, and succeed in life. Education is one factor that affects job positions people hold, advance in their further career, the income they make, and the title they hold.

The more educated a person is, the more prestige and power that person holds.
If producing educated people isn’t profitable then I don’t know what is.

I suggest that corporate profits, taxed at a mere 10% in Ontario (about the lowest in Canada), contribute little to our society. Producing widgets is far less important than producing productive citizens as well as those educated skilled workers and/or professionals that drive this Provinces economy.

I suppose you were home schooled and learned to be a broadcaster doing a correspondence course. I guess you were never mentored, encouraged, motivated or taught. You’ve done pretty well to be self-educated.

And, considering you only work three hours a day, that’s a pretty good gig. But getting minimum wage (because you have no formal education) for only 15 hours a week must make it difficult for you to make ends meet.

And, with all those commercials and breaks I bet you only work 45 minutes or less in an hour. No wonder you didn’t get into teaching. You have it pretty soft over there at good old CFRB! I wonder why you would bother to point fingers at hard working teachers though.

I think you get my point. If you don’t, may I suggest an advanced course in logic and reasoning? Even better – walk a mile in a teacher’s shoes.

Mr. Agar, the production values and the profits made from education are immeasurable. I remember learning about “Value added through manufacture” in economic geography a way back when. That’s when the process of milling and fabrication adds to the value of a product from that upon which it was valued as a raw material.

I say, value added through education is far more important than dollar values added through manufacture, don’t you. Taking a four year old and developing him/her as a useful, functioning participant in society 20 + years later is the kind of “Value added” I want to promote.

The development of people should be far more important than the development of “things”. And, when push comes to shove, educated people produce taxes at levels where society thrives and all citizens benefit.

Really, Mr. Agar, all of us profit from a good education: individuals, groups and society as a whole. A strong education system assures that this happens. Funding that system well and respecting those that do the job is an essential precondition for success.

Investing in education pays huge dividends for society.
So, when you make remarks about education not being profitable you are way out of line and sadly misinformed.

Thomas Jefferson said, "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories. And to render them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree."

"Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to; convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty."

Sadly, in Ontario, this is not the case.

Thank goodness teachers (the educated ones) are fighting for all of our liberties in their battle with Laurel Broten and the Liberal led attack on democratic process. It is unfortunate that you and others sling the arrows that make this noble quest more treacherous and difficult.

Remember, Mr. Agar, “Teaching is the profession that teaches all the other professions.” You are what you are today because your teacher/mentors/instructors prepared you for being a decent talk show host.

So, Jerry, when you are at your next tea party please spread this message. It’s alright to be conservative but it’s dead wrong to spew misinformation and vitriol.
You know, sometimes I feel a bit like Abe Lincoln who said, “Teach the children so that it will not be necessary to teach the adults.”

I guess I’m trying to teach adults NOW!

And do you know what? In my experience, that is a whole lot more difficult than teaching kids.

All the Best,
Grumpy

Jerry, you can't compare private sector jobs where they are profit based with public sector jobs which are more humanitarian based (health, education).

Pro-Union Activist Threatens the Michigan Governor: 'We'll Be at Your Daughter's Soccer Game'


http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/#WGrlTjOd7qgGsqmf.99

Hey Jerry - you didn't sound too intelligent this morning considering you're all over the teacher's unions and have been for weeks. You didn't know what ETFO stood for...not too impressed Jerry. ETFO duh Education no no ya that's right Elementary duh...Teachers uh Federation of Ontario ya ya that's it. And then the comment about the two workers showing solidarity and something about Karl Marx....really? That's like calling you a white supremist and we all know that's just not true. You have lost a CFRB listener and I have to wonder how many other listeners you've lost due to your verbal diarrea. Well, on second thought maybe I'll still tune in to John Tory, at least he's reasonable and intelligent.