JOHN MOORE

Unions are bad. I brought a clip

Posted By: John Moore · 12/12/2012 10:35:00 AM

What a surprise. Jerry Agar found video of a guy at a union rally in Michigan behaving like a thug. Therefore all unions and union members are violent extremists. Case closed. 

It's always a lousy argument to isolate someone behaving badly and then try to pretend it reflects on a whole group. Unless of course a few too many in that group actually identify with that bad behavior.

Jerry asked me for evidence that Tea Partiers have been prone to violence. You can find it here (where a guy rams a car because it has an Obama bumper sticker)  here ( a still image of a sign warning that a handgun can settle Obamacare) and here (a compilation of various whack jobs threatening armed violence and getting into spittle throwing confrontations). I could go on posting pictures of the Phelps family suggesting that all Christians are intolerant or pictures of right wingers calling Barack Obama a "ni**er" but I think you get the point; it's a childish exercise (known technically in debating jargon as "fallacious extension" which admittedly makes the eight year old in me giggle).

Pick a fight with unions all you want but at least do it with an argument rather than a flimsily supported assertion. 

So instead I recommend this video of a kid and his dog. If more people in the world could find pleasure and friendship this easily in life we'd all be happier. 

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  1. Stephen Smith posted on 12/12/2012 02:27 PM
    You forgot about the woman who ran over her husband because he didn't vote. She thought an Obama win would ruin her family and she was furious he didn't vote for Romney.

    Next up Jerry boycotts Christmas because he hears Santa's elves have organized.
  2. Wayne Gosse posted on 12/13/2012 12:42 PM
    John,

    agree with jery or not, it's not just his isolated opinion, it's a fact. - According to a study in 1969, the United States has had the bloodiest and most violent labor history of any industrial nation in the world, and there have been few industries which have been immune.

    I'm not sure the relevance of comparing this to the Tea Party but, Unions have a long history of violence.
  3. Paul Macdonald posted on 12/13/2012 03:59 PM
    How typical of John Moore to rise to the defense of unions in the face of blatant video evidence. By John's logic, maybe not all Hell's Angels, Al Queda or Mafia members are thugs or murderers either, and we shouldn't judge the entire group because of the actions of a few. Give me a break.
    1. James Peter posted on 12/13/2012 04:41 PM
      @Paul Macdonald Your argument is so stupid that I was not sure if I should comment. Union members are equivalent to Al Queda, a terrorist organization. Really Paul? Make an educated argument then you may have people listen to you rather than take you for an ignorant fool. Your first mistake was siding with the self righteous arrogant and ignorant Jerry Agar over the open minded intellectual John Moore.
  4. levon posted on 12/13/2012 08:01 PM
    Remember this Agar, there was a reason they used to call it union busting. It was taken literally. Your precious Tea Party is filled with white racists haters. John is right to challenge your "all unions are evil and should be gone" attitude. Go back to the southern confederacy and live amongst your own.
  5. JM posted on 12/13/2012 09:36 PM
    Oh dear, Johnnies upset again today about unions.

    You'd think that he was a proud Unionist member himself, either that or married to one.
  6. Glenn Smith posted on 12/14/2012 07:50 AM
    I love the hypocrisy... admonishing Jerry for using a form of fallacious argumentation, by using fallacious argumentation! A backhanded adhominem attack (calling Jerry an eight year old) and setting up a straw man in order to make your own point. Since you could find a site with a record of 12 assertions of Tea Pary violence (including calling a sign 'violence"????) Jerry's assertion was flimsy. Come on John.

    You know that Jerry's point was that bullying tactics are historically associated with modern day unions. Sadly one of your own oft resorted to bullying tactics is to uniformly charge the defender of a position with the burden of proof, while you as the critic are thought to have no such obligation. This is nothing less than the current state of culture and philosophy; it has no basis in logic and reason. If Jerry's claim that unions now, and historically, resort to thuggery, obligates him to prove the claim, then your claim that these incidents are isolated and meaningless, should place the same obligation on you, who has a problem with it.

    For those that have any doubt about union thuggery and even some of the laws that are in place which ALLOW it, the following will make your head spin...
    http://nilrr.org/resources/violence-event-data-file/
    1. Stephen Smith posted on 12/14/2012 09:24 AM
      @Glenn Smith including calling a sign 'violence"????)

      Tell the to Jews in 1930's Germany.
  7. Vince posted on 12/14/2012 07:58 AM
    You also forgot all the teachers in Ontario using children as pawns in order to force me to work longer and harder so that they get a better pension when they retire.

    You also forgot the Cityt of Toronto garbage workers forcing the elderly to wait hours in the sweltering sun in order to dump off their garbage.

    Yopu also forhgot, during that same strike, some picketers at these same dump sites vandalising the vehicles of service people the city hired to remove garbage from institutions.

    There are goons and thgugs on both sides. At least the non-unionized thugs do not force me to work harder for their pensions.
    1. Matt posted on 12/14/2012 04:21 PM
      @Vince I particularly enjoyed the 2 minute wait per car during the college strike in 2011. This was really a 20 minute wait per car.

      I think they don't realize the value of the already-won benefits; primarily job security, that nobody else enjoys in this era.
  8. Laurie Weston posted on 12/14/2012 09:47 AM
    One can concede that the Tea Party has an inordinate number of adherants madder than hatters however that should not justify the prevalance of thuggery amongst union leaders and their enforcers.
    When an union stiffles dissent, intimidates contrary opinions, shuns the secret ballot, fines it own members for not supporting job actions it earns the scorn heaped upon it by the public.
    The teachers were once considered professionals, guardians of fundmentals freedoms and encouraging free expression of ideas and debate. Once the union takes over there is no room for the professional stance everyone is reduced to a union hack.
    1. Matt posted on 12/14/2012 04:22 PM
      @Laurie Weston Agreed, a red liberal and a union hack. Also, crazies per thousand have a good showing in the libertarians.
  9. taxpayer posted on 12/14/2012 05:23 PM
    Well said John!! Unions help create a middle class with decent jobs that pay well. They are humanitarians, not thugs. The odd extremist is in every organization. Unions donate money to United Way and food to local food banks. Where are these videos? Unfortunately, sensationalism makes the news. Thanks again for pointing this out.
    1. JM posted on 12/14/2012 06:13 PM
      @taxpayer Unionists = Humanitarians = Saints

      Thanks for the laugh.

      Did you know that Taxpayers actually pay for the Salaries/Benefits for Ontario public service employees when they $$Vounteer$$ for the United Way and other charities when instead they should be at work?

      Never heard that before .... getting paid while $$Vounteering$$.
  10. Stug posted on 12/17/2012 11:53 AM
    John why would you even give Jerry Agar ink in your blog? what's the point? what positives would it bring. Some people and their hateful opinions and narrow ideology are best left ignored
  11. JM posted on 12/19/2012 09:07 AM
    Heard Mr. Moore this morning spreading more of his pro-union propaganda on how...the government was too generous with other public servants and is now bashing the teachers ....

    Delivering his usual snide, haughty soundbite is not informing the public with the facts.

    Mr Moore sounds like he's better suited to be on a picket line than on the radio
    1. James posted on 12/19/2012 11:04 PM
      @JM Look up the work propaganda. You will probably see Jerry Agar's face next to the definition. John Moore is entitiled to an opinion which he presents as his opinion. Jerry Agar constantly presents ideas as fact when they are blatantly in accordance with his bias. At least if Jerry had an intelligent thought every now and then he could be forgiven.
  12. Jack Bauer posted on 12/21/2012 08:44 PM
    Hey John, why the long face?
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